[Trade] Flames trade Zadorov to Canucks for 24 5th and 26 3rd

[CliffFletcher]

One factor in favour of making the move now is it gives management time to see what they have in Solovyov. With two more starting d-men likely being moved in the coming months, the team needs to get a handle on what they have in organizational depth at the position. Which in turn will influence the kinds of returns they look for when dealing Lindholm, Hanifin, and Tanev.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Where did I say he shouldn't maximize value? My point was that he should ask high which I think you are agreeing with? Treliving has inside information on the organization and knows the roster as good as anyone. If Conroy isn't being extremely careful dealing with Treliving then he's not doing his job. This isn't just me saying this as it's been discussed on the Fan and Barnburner any dealings with his former boss.

You suggested he needs to ask "higher" with TO, because of trade history with the Leafs, none of which involves the two current GMs of the Leafs and the Flames in their current roles.

Now you are suggesting that he needs to be leery of Tre's knowledge of the Flames if he were to deal with TO. That IMO is very fair, but has nothing to do with the trade history between these two teams, which frequently gets brought up by posters as a concern when anyone suggests dealing with the Leafs.

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

I’ve been watching the Flames since 1986(yes I’m old). Through the years I’ve watched this organization make so many poor decisions when it comes to being Intellectually Honest with itself. Mid to late season winning streaks would always make the team and many fans believe they were better than they really were. Only to have them just miss the playoffs/lose in the 1st round or simply just ruin their draft position. Whether this team continues that trend remains to be seen but I’m hoping that Conroy can break that trend a little. Trading away players who are soon to be free agents for picks and prospects and not taking back salary is exactly what this organization needs to do. Stay strong Conroy! And make strong decisions for the long term success of this franchise. Go Flames Go!!

[calumniate]

I like it. Meanwhile in Edmonton they can't even make call-ups. It's too bad Killington isn't here, that's for sure

[iggyloob12]

My initial reaction was, “OK, sure.” Not blown away but I understand it, especially after hearing Conroy talk about flexibility. Seeing Craig Button’s underwhelmed reaction only makes me feel better about the trade.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think Zadorov is considered more than depth. The value the Flames received is largely due to not wanting to take any money back. Fair to assume other teams were willing to part with a 2nd round pick or good prospect for him if the Flames took a contract back.

I agree with the bolded. He might be better than bottom pair. Debatable. Limited cap room around the league was a factor.

But he shouldn't be miscast as a 3rd pairing D but paid that. It's not so much our return on the trade. We shouldn't have had that much tied up in him in the first place.

I've hated how Tre would come into each season sitting tight to the cap.

[FanIn80]

My takeaway from listening to Conny last night is that everyone was offering a 3rd round pick because that's what we paid for him. In terms of additionals, everyone but VAN had retention requirements and he has other plans that require cap space fleixibility.

I mean, on its own, the trade looks pretty rough... but luckily for us, nothing really exists on its own, so we all get the benefit of being able to wait and see what some of the other moves are.

[ah123]

Initially, I was underwhelmed with the return, but it quickly became apparent that this was as much about freeing up cap space as about the picks.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Gaudreau is a Ninja

I’ve been watching the Flames since 1986(yes I’m old). Through the years I’ve watched this organization make so many poor decisions when it comes to being Intellectually Honest with itself. Mid to late season winning streaks would always make the team and many fans believe they were better than they really were. Only to have them just miss the playoffs/lose in the 1st round or simply just ruin their draft position. Whether this team continues that trend remains to be seen but I’m hoping that Conroy can break that trend a little. Trading away players who are soon to be free agents for picks and prospects and not taking back salary is exactly what this organization needs to do. Stay strong Conroy! And make strong decisions for the long term success of this franchise. Go Flames Go!!

Sometimes you have to take a step back, in order to take 2 steps forward....

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Sometimes you have to take a step back, in order to take 2 steps forward....

Exactly! 👍

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The fact that we even got a 3rd and a 5th for an overpaid third pairing defenceman without retaining a dime is pretty amazing.

Did dino hack your account?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I think if an actual good prospect was on the table they would have retained. Burning a retention spot to go from a 3rd to 2nd probably isn't worth losing the ability to do it on the other UFAs

Of course it's impossible to predict, but there is a decent chance the VAN 3rd will be in the 70s, while a 2nd from a stronger team could be in the 50s. It could even be high 60s vs low 60s (or 90s vs mid 30s, but that's much less likely)

At that point in the draft dropping 20 slots means you might move down your own list by like 5-8 guys.

[Bonded]

Vancouver already wants to sign him. Hopefully he gets a 5x5

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Of course it's impossible to predict, but there is a decent chance the VAN 3rd will be in the 70s, while a 2nd from a stronger team could be in the 50s. It could even be high 60s vs low 60s (or 90s vs mid 30s, but that's much less likely)

At that point in the draft dropping 20 slots means you might move down your own list by like 5-8 guys.

And who knows - it may be part of a larger future deal. Eg. Tanev plus the extra 5th plus retention for X.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by ah123

Initially, I was underwhelmed with the return, but it quickly became apparent that this was as much about freeing up cap space as about the picks.

And getting Zadorov out of the locker room and off the team in a timely manner.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Seems depth players like Zadorov and Beauvilier aren't worth much in trade value nor in play value.

In the future, if Conroy can restrain himself and construct a roster where we use younger/cheaper versions for depth, you either come into the year with cap flexibility or room to pay a top player. The blueline looked great last night without Z.

Paying 3rd pairing guys close to $4mm isn't necessary.

I don't think this is what's going on, I think that money has become a larger variable, and it needs to be considered properly. We used to look at trades as assets in vs assets out:

Zadorov for 3rd + 5th

On the surface, this is either a bad trade, or depth players aren't worth as much, or there is more to it. I believe it is the latter. Let's break it down more.

Salary is more important now. Zadorov, at $1.75M and pending RFA, is probably worth a 1st +. Zadorrov at $2.75 and a UFA, is probably worth a 2nd + 3rd. But at $3.75M, he is probably worth 2nd + 5th.

Cap space has value. We have seen in recent trades that $5-6M of cap space is worth a 1st. $3.75M for a full year is probably worth a 2nd. For a partial year, it is probably worth a 3rd.

So the trade would more accurately be stated as:

Zadorov (at $3.75M) for 3rd + 5th + 3rd (cap space)

We have seen from draft day trading that two 3rds about equal a 2nd. So if we combine the 3rds above, we get a 2nd + 5th

Which seems like a fair return, at his current salary

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I hope this isn't a case of a rookie GM being taken advantage of by other GM's but the first two trades Conroy hasn't made the team better on paper and doesn't really look like it's moved the needle in regards to the future. I'm interested to see what he does with the cap space because it sounds like that cap space was worth a lesser return for his plan.

I mean this team looks remarkably better than the one Treliving left us with last year and the moves Conroy has made have contributed to that.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

I mean this team looks remarkably better than the one Treliving left us with last year and the moves Conroy has made have contributed to that.

Hard to be upset as a Flames fan right now unless you are pissed they got a 3rd instead of a 2nd for Zadorov. Zary looks like a player, Pospisil looks like a player. Will see what we have with the two young dmen. Wolf is progressing nicely and we will see what we have after all the trades are completed.

If someone said the Flames have two young players that look like they could be 50 point forwards or more in the NHL over the summer folks would say those two forwards were Coronato and Pelletier. The fact that they have two forwards that look like they could be those types of forwards who are different guys is a huge positive in my mind.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Iniggywetrust

Remember when we had to trade a 1st round pick to clear 6.5 mil. Gaining almost 4 mil in cap space is a huge win. Just have to use it.

There is a bit of a difference. Monny was considered damaged goods, healthy enough to play, but not very good.

Zadorov was actually wanted as a player.

[Niemo]

I understand the trade.
I understand the cap space.
I understand not retaining on your 4th most valuable trade asset when you have only 3 spots for retention.
I understand the slight rush as we need to stagger the dmen trading a bit so we're not lowering the bids when the big dawgs are ready to be auctioned off.

However, when the whole league's reaction is that the return is very underwhelming (and surprisingly low), then I can't help to feel the very same. I have no doubt that Conroy took the best deal on the table. It's disappointing that the best deal was not a good one. This would've felt a lot better if it was TWO 3rd round picks - but it wasn't on the table without retention.

I understand. I was surprised at the return. I am still disappointed. I will reserve being pissed off until I see the return for Tanev, Hanifin, Lindholm after full retention.