Israel declares war on Hamas

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

They did not have first hand knowledge during the siege.

Except you were responding to someone who was talking about WHO’s first hand report after the siege.

Originally Posted by blankall

The hospitals now have full resources but the WHO is choosing not to keep them open.

Source? Everything I’ve read suggests that this is not a simple resource issue that has been remedied and that the WHO did not “choose” to shut down the hospital but instead was begged by doctors and patients to evacuate them.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Except you were responding to someone who was talking about WHO’s first hand report after the siege.



Source? Everything I’ve read suggests that this is not a simple resource issue that has been remedied and that the WHO did not “choose” to shut down the hospital but instead was begged by doctors and patients to evacuate them.

Fair enough. I guess I didn't know every fact about the WHO. The WHO was also clearly taking facts from Hamas too. Especially as they relate to the deaths that occurred in the hospital and the situation that brought about those deaths. I honestly don't see how Israel giving the WHO full access to the hospitals strengthens the case that Israel is responsible for the damage there.

Lack of clean water, fuel, medicines, food and other essential aid over the last 6 weeks have caused Al-Shifa Hospital – once the largest, most advanced and best equipped referral hospital in Gaza – to essentially stop functioning as a medical facility.

WHO is deeply concerned about the safety and health needs of patients, health workers and internally displaced people sheltering at the few remaining partially functional hospitals in the north, which are facing the risk of closure due to a lack of fuel, water, medical supplies and food, and the intense hostilities. Immediate efforts must be made to restore the functionality of Al-Shifa and all other hospitals to provide urgently needed health services in Gaza.

https://www.who.int/news/item/18-11-...spital-in-gaza

I'm not seeing anything about the hospital being closed due to actual damage to the hospital, just shortages while under Hamas' control.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

Fair enough. I guess I didn't know every fact about the WHO. The WHO was also clearly taking facts from Hamas too. Especially as they relate to the deaths that occurred in the hospital and the situation that brought about those deaths. I honestly don't see how Israel giving the WHO full access to the hospitals strengthens the case that Israel is responsible for the damage there.






https://www.who.int/news/item/18-11-...spital-in-gaza

I'm not seeing anything about the hospital being closed due to actual damage to the hospital, just shortages while under Hamas' control.

And your source for the hospital now having all of those things?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

The hospitals now have full resources but the WHO is choosing not to keep them open.

Haha! Wow!

You really will say just about anything.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And your source for the hospital now having all of those things?

Do you have any proof that Israel is keeping resources away from the hospitals. It seems like the WHO has access to fuel and other resources, and I don't see any news about Israel restricting the WHO from providing these resources to hospitals specifically.

I actually find this whole thing quite bizarre. With the amount of actual devastation and suffering that is occurring in the Gaza Strip, why are people focusing in on this supposed raid of a hospital, where there is no evidence of substantial damage and Hamas was caught on video bringing hostages at gunpoint into the hospital.

[FlamesAddiction]

Logistically, solving the Israel-Palestine conflict doesn't need to be complicated.

I think a good solution would be to have a personal federal union of nations in one state. There is just no rewinding the clock at this point. You can go back and forth to arbitrary points in history and argue about who done what, but it doesn't change the current state of affairs. The truth is, in my opinion, is that Gaza and West Bank are beyond the point that they could function as 100% independent states. Not just because Israel, but because of all the players in the region who have resisted it in the past.

Gaza and West Bank under Israel could have their own parliament and courts, and could be self-governing in most domestic matters, while having an economic union with Israel. Foreign policy could be handled at the federal level within a democratic framework. There are countries in the world that function peacefully with a dual system, some better than others, but IMO it is probably the best solution.

Obviously the bad blood and religious fundamentalism aspect holds a lot of this back, which is really unfortunate.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

Do you have any proof that Israel is keeping resources away from the hospitals. It seems like the WHO has access to fuel and other resources, and I don't see any news about Israel restricting the WHO from providing these resources to hospitals specifically.

I actually find this whole thing quite bizarre. With the amount of actual devastation and suffering that is occurring in the Gaza Strip, why are people focusing in on this supposed raid of a hospital, where there is no evidence of substantial damage and Hamas was caught on video bringing hostages at gunpoint into the hospital.

You made the claim that the hospital now has “full resources” and the WHO closed it down regardless, you have to back up that claim.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

Do you have any proof that Israel is keeping resources away from the hospitals. It seems like the WHO has access to fuel and other resources, and I don't see any news about Israel restricting the WHO from providing these resources to hospitals specifically.

Eff me. He's trying to deflect the blame onto WHO now.

WHO 8th November

Medical facilities are running out of supplies and fuel. So far, no fuel has been allowed into the Gaza Strip, including to Al-Shifa hospital for over one month now.

UNRWA and WHO renew their urgent call for the delivery of fuel to humanitarian agencies in the Gaza Strip. Without fuel, hospitals and other essential facilities such as desalination plants and bakeries cannot operate, and more people will most certainly die as a result.Medical facilities are running out of supplies and fuel. So far, no fuel has been allowed into the Gaza Strip, including to Al-Shifa hospital for over one month now.

UNRWA and WHO renew their urgent call for the delivery of fuel to humanitarian agencies in the Gaza Strip. Without fuel, hospitals and other essential facilities such as desalination plants and bakeries cannot operate, and more people will most certainly die as a result.

https://www.who.int/news/item/08-11-...shifa-hospital

Originally Posted by blankall

I actually find this whole thing quite bizarre. With the amount of actual devastation and suffering that is occurring in the Gaza Strip, why are people focusing in on this supposed raid of a hospital, where there is no evidence of substantial damage and Hamas was caught on video bringing hostages at gunpoint into the hospital.

The bizarre thing here is you, and your willingness to randomly say anything in order to try and defend the slaughter.

No evidence of substantial damage? Wtf is wrong with you? Is the mass grave in the hospital grounds not substantial enough for you? The main hospital for the region deemed inoperable leading to mass evacuations of sick and wounded with nowhere to go not substantial?

And what is it with the "supposed" raid thing? Is this your next thing? To pretend that there was no raid?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Logistically, solving the Israel-Palestine conflict doesn't need to be complicated.

I think a good solution would be to have a personal federal union of nations in one state. There is just no rewinding the clock at this point. You can go back and forth to arbitrary points in history and argue about who done what, but it doesn't change the current state of affairs. The truth is, in my opinion, is that Gaza and West Bank are beyond the point that they could function as 100% independent states. Not just because Israel, but because of all the players in the region who have resisted it in the past.

Gaza and West Bank under Israel could have their own parliament and courts, and could be self-governing in most domestic matters, while having an economic union with Israel. Foreign policy could be handled at the federal level within a democratic framework. There are countries in the world that function peacefully with a dual system, some better than others, but IMO it is probably the best solution.

Obviously the bad blood and religious fundamentalism aspect holds a lot of this back, which is really unfortunate.

The main issue is that without hard borders how do you stop the two sides from making territorial claims against the other. You'd have settlers continuing to erode the West Bank and you'd have Palestinians continuing to attempt to totally displace Israel.

Having the people just suddenly get along seems really far off at this point. The stricter the rules, the better for these two.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Eff me. He's trying to deflect the blame onto WHO now.

WHO 8th November

https://www.who.int/news/item/08-11-...shifa-hospital


The bizarre thing here is you, and your willingness to randomly say anything in order to try and defend the slaughter.

No evidence of substantial damage? Wtf is wrong with you? Is the mass grave in the hospital grounds not substantial enough for you? The main hospital for the region deemed inoperable leading to mass evacuations of sick and wounded with nowhere to go not substantial?

And what is it with the "supposed" raid thing? Is this your next thing? To pretend that there was no raid?

Ahh...I see. One side has to be exact to every detail with communications between state and non-state actors. But you're allowed to fly off the handle and parrot whatever you want.

[Fuzzy14]

I for one am a big fan of the old fifteen minute ceasefire.

Nothing makes me more confident that someone can be trusted to bargain in good faith in the future when i've taken ####s that have lasted longer than the most recent agreement.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

Ahh...I see. One side has to be exact to every detail with communications between state and non-state actors. But you're allowed to fly off the handle and parrot whatever you want.

See. There you go again with your deliberate dishonesty attempting to deflect from your earlier lies.

I am not "one side". Unless that is you consider the slaughtered and maimed newborns, children, and civilians on BOTH sides to be a side.

I am not "parroting" on about anything. I am simply pointing out that you are lying at every chance you get in some warped effort to justify the slaughter and deaths in the hospital.

You're not remotely close to being "exact to every detail". Your posts are unhinged from the truth.

1. That Israel supplied the hospital with fuel. 12 x 25 litre jerry cans which we don't even know were even full nor if they were what was in there. How long do you think that would keep the Foothills running?

2. That the Hospital appears to be still running contrary to WHO stating that it was a "death zone." Zero evidence to back this up.

3. In response to WHO stating it was a "death zone". Oh they're getting their info from Hamas. Because if in doubt say Hamas.

4. The fantastic Israel is not stopping supplies from getting in claim.

5. The even more fantastic. "The Hospitals now have full resources but the WHO is choosing not to keep them open." Again, waiting for a source to back that one up.

6. That there is no evidence of substantial damage to the hospital. Despite it having been declared non operational and a mass grave in the grounds.

7. And finally. The now "apparent" raid on the hospital. What are you trying to say here? That nothing happened?

So no. This is not a case of you not being or having to be "exact to every detail". This is a case of you deliberately posting multiple way out there false statements in an effort to give a misleading narrative. One or two might get you the benefit of the doubt but multiple suggests a deliberate attempt to deceive.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Bagor

See. There you go again with your deliberate dishonesty attempting to deflect from your earlier lies.

I am not "one side". Unless that is you consider the slaughtered and maimed newborns, children, and civilians on BOTH sides to be a side.

I am not "parroting" on about anything. I am simply pointing out that you are lying at every chance you get in some warped effort to justify the slaughter and deaths in the hospital.

You're not remotely close to being "exact to every detail". Your posts are unhinged from the truth.

1. That Israel supplied the hospital with fuel. 12 x 25 litre jerry cans which we don't even know were even full nor if they were what was in there. How long do you think that would keep the Foothills running?

2. That the Hospital appears to be still running contrary to WHO stating that it was a "death zone." Zero evidence to back this up.

3. In response to WHO stating it was a "death zone". Oh they're getting their info from Hamas. Because if in doubt say Hamas.

4. The fantastic Israel is not stopping supplies from getting in claim.

5. The even more fantastic. "The Hospitals now have full resources but the WHO is choosing not to keep them open." Again, waiting for a source to back that one up.

6. That there is no evidence of substantial damage to the hospital. Despite it having been declared non operational and a mass grave in the grounds.

7. And finally. The now "apparent" raid on the hospital. What are you trying to say here? That nothing happened?

So no. This is not a case of you not being or having to be "exact to every detail". This is a case of you deliberately posting multiple way out there false statements in an effort to give a misleading narrative. One or two might get you the benefit of the doubt but multiple suggests a deliberate attempt to deceive.

You're trying to equate the IDF waiting outside the hospital - which was being used to hold hostages - as opposed to just storming into it, with the actions of October 7, where Hamas killed babies/children at close range, burnt people alive, raped women, parading corpses of young women through the streets, etc...

Yeah no. Those two actions are not in any way equivalent. There was no slaughter or maiming in the hospital. The only purposeful attacks on medical centers thus far, were the ones attacked on October 7 and the missiles fired from Gaza that struck hospitals in Israel and Gaza itself.

[Bagor]

Why don't you either address or acknowledge your seven lies?

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Why don't you either address or acknowledge your seven lies?

What is this, Question Period on Parliament?

You are clearly not arguing in good faith. You want to paint one side as bad and the other as victims (as have others for both sides). So, maybe check yourself before you so aggressively check others.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy14

I for one am a big fan of the old fifteen minute ceasefire.

Nothing makes me more confident that someone can be trusted to bargain in good faith in the future when i've taken ####s that have lasted longer than the most recent agreement.

You may need more fiber in your diet.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

What is this, Question Period on Parliame
You are clearly not arguing in good faith. You want to paint one side as bad and the other as victims (as have others for both sides). So, maybe check yourself before you so aggressively check others.

Stop with your defective one side rubbish. The usual critique anything that is pro Israel and you are taking a side bs. Again NOBODY has denied the eviilness of what Hamas did and that there are Israeli victims.

I'm simply calling out deliberate lies and I'm arguing in bad faith? Is there a particular reason why the calling out of the lies and false narrative makes you uncomfortable?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Stop with your defective one side rubbish. The usual critique anything that is pro Israel and you are taking a side bs. Again NOBODY has denied the eviilness of what Hamas did and that there are Israeli victims.

I'm simply calling out deliberate lies and I'm arguing in bad faith? Is there a particular reason why the calling out of the lies and false narrative makes you uncomfortable?

Edit: not even going to bother arguing with you. Hamas could drop a tactical nuke on Tel Aviv and you still would blame Israel

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Edit: not even going to bother arguing with you. Hamas could drop a tactical nuke on Tel Aviv and you still would blame Israel

Seriously, what in Bagor’s post is any of this a response to?

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Seriously, what in Bagor’s post is any of this a response to?

As usual it is not it is just more excuses to not answer the questions that they don't want to answer.

Much easier to claim everyone is Anti-Semetic, happy for nukes to be dropped on Tel Aviv, hate anything Israel does rather than actually address what they say.