Zadorov just requested a trade. 😢

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Agree with Bingo, don't avoid the players but you need to absolutely be proactive. Treliving wss with Fox, but wasn't with Tkachuk.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've never agreed with this notion.

Take the best player.

Still better to draft a player that either won't come, or won't sign a second contract then to reduce your pool of players.

Take the Fox pick ...

Next ten players taken after Fox that year were the following ...

Matt Filipe
Cam Dineen
Cliff Pu
Will Bitten
Josh Anderson
J.D. Greenway
Joey Anderson
Hudson Elynuik
Jack LaFontaine
Rem Pitlick

Only two guys have played a game in that group and they're both American as well.

Draft the asset and manage it the best you can.

Guess we will agree to disagree. If the best player available is Russian and has no intention of signing in North America, do you still pick him? If a player says under no circumstance will I sign with a Canadian team, do you still pick him?

Good thing is that conroy wants players who want to be here. Enough of cajoling players who don’t want to be here or pursuing players with Calgary on their ntc.

Hope the scouting team is asking that question. Again, can’t paint players of various nationalities with the same brush, but can’t end up being the Montreal expos of the NHL and develop stats for other teams. Need to develop players to build a winner here.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Agree with Bingo, don't avoid the players but you need to absolutely be proactive. Treliving wss with Fox, but wasn't with Tkachuk.

think that's really hard to compare. Fox never signed with the franchise, whereas Tkachuk played 6 seasons in Calgary and signed two contracts. Treliving also traded him for what most agreed at the time was a great package of assets. It obviously hasn't worked out with Huberdeau yet, but the deal in itself was fine. You can obviously blame Treliving for only signing Tkachuk to a bridge deal after his ELC instead of locking him in long-term, but still, lumping Fox and Tkachuk together makes little sense IMO.

Generally, I get the American notion, but both Gaudreau and Tkachuk signed, re-signed and played for a long time in Calgary. Fox is different, but he wouldn't sign in Carolina either. He was a special kind of weasel, but that shouldn't make the Flames stay away from Americans. Coronato also signed with no issues whatsoever.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've never agreed with this notion.

Take the best player.

Still better to draft a player that either won't come, or won't sign a second contract then to reduce your pool of players.

Take the Fox pick ...

Next ten players taken after Fox that year were the following ...

Matt Filipe
Cam Dineen
Cliff Pu
Will Bitten
Josh Anderson
J.D. Greenway
Joey Anderson
Hudson Elynuik
Jack LaFontaine
Rem Pitlick

Only two guys have played a game in that group and they're both American as well.

Draft the asset and manage it the best you can.

Not to take away from your point, which I agree with, but technically 5 have played games:


Dineen -34
Bitten - 4
Anderson - 96
Lafontaine - 2
Pitlick - 123


And at that stage of the draft, i think team evaluations are so far different that you can't just look at the next 10 - guys like Hagel and Bratt and Colton were still on the board. But no doubt Fox is the best out of all of them.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Guess we will agree to disagree. If the best player available is Russian and has no intention of signing in North America, do you still pick him? If a player says under no circumstance will I sign with a Canadian team, do you still pick him?

Good thing is that conroy wants players who want to be here. Enough of cajoling players who don’t want to be here or pursuing players with Calgary on their ntc.

Hope the scouting team is asking that question. Again, can’t paint players of various nationalities with the same brush, but can’t end up being the Montreal expos of the NHL and develop stats for other teams. Need to develop players to build a winner here.

I think it depends on the circumstances. If it's a 1st round pick and there are other players on board that are close in quality, then I would avoid drafting the player that has no intention of playing for your team. If they are the BPA, and it isn't even close, then I draft them and work try to work it out or flip the asset later if you think the value of the return will still be more than the value of the other players left on the board.

If it is a mid or late round pick, I take the player no matter what. Those picks aren't incredibly valuable and it is worth the risk.

I suspect the Honzek pick in the last draft falls into the first category. Just intuitively and reading between the lines of some of the things Conroy said at the time, I feel that Conroy looked at all the players on the board at that time that were close in value, and then considered which one would be happiest to be a Calgary Flame. A kid from Slovakia already playing in Western Canada is likely more up to playing in Calgary than some players with different backgrounds.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Guess we will agree to disagree. If the best player available is Russian and has no intention of signing in North America, do you still pick him? If a player says under no circumstance will I sign with a Canadian team, do you still pick him?

Good thing is that conroy wants players who want to be here. Enough of cajoling players who don’t want to be here or pursuing players with Calgary on their ntc.

Hope the scouting team is asking that question. Again, can’t paint players of various nationalities with the same brush, but can’t end up being the Montreal expos of the NHL and develop stats for other teams. Need to develop players to build a winner here.

Yes!

And always!

I'd rather have a valuable asset that doesn't want to play in Calgary (Canada), then a worthless asset that does.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Guess we will agree to disagree. If the best player available is Russian and has no intention of signing in North America, do you still pick him? If a player says under no circumstance will I sign with a Canadian team, do you still pick him?

Good thing is that conroy wants players who want to be here. Enough of cajoling players who don’t want to be here or pursuing players with Calgary on their ntc.

Hope the scouting team is asking that question. Again, can’t paint players of various nationalities with the same brush, but can’t end up being the Montreal expos of the NHL and develop stats for other teams. Need to develop players to build a winner here.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yes!

And always!

I'd rather have a valuable asset that doesn't want to play in Calgary (Canada), then a worthless asset that does.

If a Russian player doesn't want to go to NA, they can always opt out of the draft, so that's not really an issue. And frankly no player will ever limit themselves in draft interviews.

[Radio]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Guess we will agree to disagree. If the best player available is Russian and has no intention of signing in North America, do you still pick him? If a player says under no circumstance will I sign with a Canadian team, do you still pick him?

Good thing is that conroy wants players who want to be here. Enough of cajoling players who don’t want to be here or pursuing players with Calgary on their ntc.

Hope the scouting team is asking that question. Again, can’t paint players of various nationalities with the same brush, but can’t end up being the Montreal expos of the NHL and develop stats for other teams. Need to develop players to build a winner here.

Worked out for the Quebec Nordiques

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yes!

And always!

I'd rather have a valuable asset that doesn't want to play in Calgary (Canada), then a worthless asset that does.

Yup. "Doesn't want to play in Canada" just means he has a 5-team NTC, and there are 26 other teams about to enter a bidding war. The trick is to open the gates the very second after drafting him - not wait until his final year when you've lost all leverage.

[Ped]

But at 18, unless it's a 1st round guy, he's not high-profile enough for teams to get in a bidding war. I mean, bottom line, Adam Fox is probably the best player taken out of the 1st round that year, depending how his career rolls out.


At 18, unless he flat tells you he's not signing, why wouldn't you take him if you think he has that kind of upside? He's not going to tell you that, because he doesn't know who else has interest. He doesn't know he's going to be a star; he might just sign with you.


As much as people want to think he was a throw-in to the trade, he wasn't. He was a piece Carolina wanted and thought they could maybe sign, and when they couldn't, they flipped him for more assets.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Ped

But at 18, unless it's a 1st round guy, he's not high-profile enough for teams to get in a bidding war. I mean, bottom line, Adam Fox is probably the best player taken out of the 1st round that year, depending how his career rolls out.


At 18, unless he flat tells you he's not signing, why wouldn't you take him if you think he has that kind of upside? He's not going to tell you that, because he doesn't know who else has interest. He doesn't know he's going to be a star; he might just sign with you.


As much as people want to think he was a throw-in to the trade, he wasn't. He was a piece Carolina wanted and thought they could maybe sign, and when they couldn't, they flipped him for more assets.

Kids being drafted now will say all the right things and do the right things. Fox even came to Calgary on his own dime for development camp. They are just keeping their options open.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Radio

Worked out for the Quebec Nordiques

And so well for us with Tom Erixon

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Radio

Worked out for the Colorado Avs

lol. It did crap all for Quebec City.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Guess we will agree to disagree. If the best player available is Russian and has no intention of signing in North America, do you still pick him? If a player says under no circumstance will I sign with a Canadian team, do you still pick him?

Good thing is that conroy wants players who want to be here. Enough of cajoling players who don’t want to be here or pursuing players with Calgary on their ntc.

Hope the scouting team is asking that question. Again, can’t paint players of various nationalities with the same brush, but can’t end up being the Montreal expos of the NHL and develop stats for other teams. Need to develop players to build a winner here.

I think those are two majorly different situations.

Saying he won't play in the NHL severely limits the options you have in terms of a trade, just saying he won't play for 7 teams in Canada but still willing to play in 24 teams means you can still move the guy for value back.

As much as people crap on Fox he was a 3rd round pick that ended up getting Carolina back 2 2nds after being used as value in a deal we made before that. I take the 2 2nds or value to help us get Lindholm and Hanifin everyday over the 3rd rounder that wants to come to Calgary but flames out with no value.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

And so well for us with Tom Erixon

The NHL didn't work out so well for Tim Erixon so not sure what point you're trying to make

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Groot

The NHL didn't work out so well for Tim Erixon so not sure what point you're trying to make

We drafted Erixon with our 1st round pick which we could have used to pick a player who would have signed with us.

We trade him for 2 2nd round picks (Markus Granlund and Tyler Wotherspoon) and Roman Horak. None of whom worked out for us.

So great, Lindros got Quebec/Colorado a haul. We picked a player who was the best player on our list, he doesn’t sign and we end up with busted picks and a busted prospect. We draft someone other than Erixon who would have signed and developed and we are probably further ahead. Not saying he was next on our list, but Marcus Johansson went after Erixon and he’s carved out a nice nhl career, part of that as a C, which was an organizational need at the time of the draft.

And Tom was on purpose as many of us long time CPers refer to him as.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

lol. It did crap all for Quebec City.

The Nordiques were a damn good team right at the end. It wasn't the players' or managers' fault that the franchise relocated.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

We drafted Erixon with our 1st round pick which we could have used to pick a player who would have signed with us.

We trade him for 2 2nd round picks (Markus Granlund and Tyler Wotherspoon) and Roman Horak. None of whom worked out for us.

So great, Lindros got Quebec/Colorado a haul. We picked a player who was the best player on our list, he doesn’t sign and we end up with busted picks and a busted prospect. We draft someone other than Erixon who would have signed and developed and we are probably further ahead. Not saying he was next on our list, but Marcus Johansson went after Erixon and he’s carved out a nice nhl career, part of that as a C, which was an organizational need at the time of the draft.

And Tom was on purpose as many of us long time CPers refer to him as.

Plenty of 1st rounders wouldn't get you 1 2nd let alone 2. Not the ideal situation but a hell of a lot better than it could have been drafting a guy that wanted to be here but didn't pan out.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

We drafted Erixon with our 1st round pick which we could have used to pick a player who would have signed with us.

I think Groot's point is that it didn't matter whether Erixon signed or not, because he was no good. Getting back two 2nds was better than signing him and ending up with a totally wasted pick.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Plenty of 1st rounders wouldn't get you 1 2nd let alone 2. Not the ideal situation but a hell of a lot better than it could have been drafting a guy that wanted to be here but didn't pan out.

Right. But we passed on a player who could have panned out in favour of one who only wanted to play in Nyr. And we busted on the return we got for him. I would have passed on Erixon knowing that and picked another player who would have been more open to sign and play here. Great that we recouped picks, but they didn’t work out and one of the few first round picks that Sutter didn’t trade busted bad.