[PGT] There was a 4-1 hockey game I guess

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Oh yes, that totally happened. Tkachuk has been an absolute dud and that Toffoli guy, h is just stinking up the joint in NJ. The only one that didn't thrive is Gaudreau who has different priorities than winning hockey games now.

The ones remaining here I mean, they’ve crapped the bed. Not the ones who left. But they didn’t want to be here. What can you do? I guess curl up in a fetal Position like this years roster has.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

You think promoting the AGM and assistant coach counts as a change? They went with a No Frills version of Trelieving and Sutter.

This team needed a fresh set of eyes and preferably someone who had success somewhere else with character references.

Are we not already seeing a different approach under Conroy?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't understand why it's fine for every other post to be about how bad Huberdeau is yet it's not ok to criticize the coach who is not using any kind of system to use him effectively. It's ok for pages and pages of posters bitching about whatever player they want but a couple of posts about how poor the coach is and it's I hate the coach and "we get it".

I get that and it's sometimes an asymmetric setup.

But I can guarantee you no coach is out there saying 'Z, make sure you push hard to cough the puck up from behind the net for that back-breaking 3rd goal against' and 'Hubie, go weak on that puck and force the pass when you're at the blue line so that it turns the other way into a 2 on 1'

When these players stop visibly underperforming yet continue to lose at the same pace, then I'll add my name to the 'We need an upgrade from Huska' list.

But so far this season, the striking feature has been individual brain farts leading to goals. No coach can overcome that with this roster.

I think last night's game with Toronto is a 'good' game for a team like this, meaning the players and coaches did what they can do. If you feel last night's outcome was truly because we got outcoached, then sure get rid of Huska. But if last night's outcome was a fine result for a roster like ours against a roster like Toronto's, then Huska is not the primary issue.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Because is ludicrous to think this supposedly elite NHL can't figure out how to look even remotely mediocre under two completely different head coaches now.
The player is terrible, full stop, this isn't a systems issue.

No, it is absolutely ridiculous to think an elite player suddenly fell off a cliff and forgot how to play hockey when he hasn't been able to put it together in the SAME stupid perimeter low danger no traffic bull#### this team has been playing for two years now. You're right though, Huberdeau is a terrible player, Kadri is a terrible player, Mangiapane completely forgot how to score, Dube after showing promise just stalked out for no reason in this system, all these skilled players became terrible all at once, it has nothing to do with the system at all. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

[Fourteen FTW]

I just posted in the Huberdeau thread. Watch these highlights, tell me what looks different. I think there are some very clear differences in how he is scoring and generating offence.

https://youtu.be/WrCcLe-gD68?si=qerXA_bmElAadRqg

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Fourteen FTW

When every single skill player is invisible, yes they own some blame, but there has to be a system problem too.

Then how do you explain Zary? It's amazing how good a system looks when you don't play like complete trash.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Vedder

This is so far from a systems issue with Huberdeau. Look at his performance on the powerplay where he has ample time and space on the flank. It doesn't matter, he can't make plays anymore, like not even simple passes most of the time. That's not Huska's fault. He's bad, he has been bad for 95 games.

At the start of the season Huska was giving him a ton of rope, playing him >20 minutes a night, moving him around, trying to find a fit. At some point it's just on the player.

20 minutes a night for a playmaker to try and do his thing in a system that preaches low danger point shots with no traffic. If by some miracle we had acquired Nathan MacKinnon two years ago you would be bitching he was a bad player and fell off a cliff because he would have about 5 points right now and probably 55 last season. You can't expect a skilled West-East playmaker to have any success in a perimeter shooting low danger system.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Honestly yes. What vision did Treliving provide? Talked in platitudes about making team better.

Conroy wants us bigger. That is evident. Look at the draft. Getting rid of tofolli and brining in a bigger, faster and younger body.

Huska vs Sutter? Can’t get much different than that.

Was a big mistake coming into the season with 6 ufas. I was disappointed this was the case and wanted trades, but the market sucks. But goes beyond the ufas. Get rid of the long termers and get more youth in lineup.

Getting fresh eyes into any organization when things are going poorly over an exte des period of time is a no brainer.

Lots of posters thought both hires were bad choices. Based on results it's hard to disagree with that.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Then how do you explain Zary? It's amazing how good a system looks when you don't play like complete trash.

How do you explain how Coronato fell off? Give Zary some time, he is new here just like Poposil, they have that new call up jump, it won't last.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Are we not already seeing a different approach under Conroy?

We are, the flames last year were tasked with making the playoffs and they barely missed. Under Conroy the flames were tasked with making the playoffs and, well, it’s going worse than last year.

[ForeverFlameFan]

It made too much sense at the time, but Brunette should have been considered. We needed an offense-minded system.

I don't mind Huska for the tank but we really need a better coach when our team eventually improves.

[Fourteen FTW]

Lindholm for Laine?

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

20 minutes a night for a playmaker to try and do his thing in a system that preaches low danger point shots with no traffic. If by some miracle we had acquired Nathan MacKinnon two years ago you would be bitching he was a bad player and fell off a cliff because he would have about 5 points right now and probably 55 last season. You can't expect a skilled West-East playmaker to have any success in a perimeter shooting low danger system.

are Zary and Pospisil playing this low danger perimeter system? No. Neither are vets like Coleman and Mangiapane.

Fact of the matter is this low danger perimeter garbage is players not wanting to go to the difficult areas on the ice.

[Spurs]

I don’t think Huska is any good but what do people think this group of players is doing with their preferred coach instead?

I’ll help you out they would be doing nothing.

[Rubicant]

Some thoughts from the game:

- this team is not better to watch in person. So little passion it’s almost hard to believe.

- I feel bad for Wolf. The only goal I really thought he should have had was the one from Hamonic. Team put in a terrible effort in front of him.

- Highlight of the night was a guy in the 200s wearing an oilers suck jersey with number 89. He left in the 3rd with a paper bag on his head.

The rebuild can’t start soon enough. Anything not bolted down needs to go. All UFAs out, and that’s just a start.

Also - building a rink in Kanata was so dumb. Appreciate how the dome and its replacement are both downtown.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Fourteen FTW

Lindholm for Laine?

That would be a disaster, he would pout for sure in this system. You want this system to work trade our skill players for big hulking guys that pqrk their ass in front of the opposing goalie and are hard to move. Then what they are running would actually make sense. Lots of point shots and perimeter shots with big guys screening the goalie. It just does not fit this roster as built right now whatsoever.

[Vedder]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

20 minutes a night for a playmaker to try and do his thing in a system that preaches low danger point shots with no traffic. If by some miracle we had acquired Nathan MacKinnon two years ago you would be bitching he was a bad player and fell off a cliff because he would have about 5 points right now and probably 55 last season. You can't expect a skilled West-East playmaker to have any success in a perimeter shooting low danger system.

I mean, Gaudreau managed 115 points as an east west player in the same system.

I'm open to the idea that Huberdeau just completely lost his confidence, and with that his ability to make an unimpeded 10 foot pass, but it's also pretty likely that at his age he's just fallen off a cliff. Happens to a lot of guys, particularly ones that aren't great skaters to begin with.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Getting fresh eyes into any organization when things are going poorly over an exte des period of time is a no brainer.

Lots of posters thought both hires were bad choices. Based on results it's hard to disagree with that.

How can you assess Conroy this early?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

We are, the flames last year were tasked with making the playoffs and they barely missed. Under Conroy the flames were tasked with making the playoffs and, well, it’s going worse than last year.

so you wanted to just miss again?

[Infinit47]

I'm shocked how controversial it is to say I thought the team would be better than they are (not some amazing team mind you) and that I think Huska isn't a good coach.