What to do with Huberdeau?

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What an exceptionally long read, I’m sure it’s well written, but don’t have the time to read right now. All I know is, right now, the guy I saw in Florida, is pretty much the same guy I’m seeing in Calgary. It’s why I was not a fan of the trade dating all the way back to when it happened. The difference is, a lot of his random spinning passes actually connected on the stick of his teammates often springing them on breakaways or finding them cutting hard to the net.

I’ve also mentioned in the past that his biggest strength is probably his ability to find the trailer jumping into the play. But like I said the other day, his line would be better off coming up as a 5 man unit, that way, the trailer actually becomes a viable option. But whatever line he’s on, is having a hard time accomplishing that because the opposition is closing in on him quickly forcing him to make rushed passes and this turnovers.

That’s why it’s up to him to either hold on to the puck a little longer, drop down lower along the halfwall and make a play to his centerman or to take a hit to make the play. There’s lots of options available as opposed to blindly throwing it into coverage and turning the puck over.

To me, Huberdeau is the opposite of a process guy. I don’t like his process and if I was a coach, he would leave me frustrated 80% of the time. But you deal with the frustrations because his vision and the unique plays he can make going against the flow of the play can lead to a plethora of goals. But without the production, what is he bringing to the table outside of frustrations?

maybe you should because they make the same point you do. That Huberdeau needs a trailer jumping into the play.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What an exceptionally long read, I’m sure it’s well written, but don’t have the time to read right now. All I know is, right now, the guy I saw in Florida, is pretty much the same guy I’m seeing in Calgary. It’s why I was not a fan of the trade dating all the way back to when it happened. The difference is, a lot of his random spinning passes actually connected on the stick of his teammates often springing them on breakaways or finding them cutting hard to the net.

I’ve also mentioned in the past that his biggest strength is probably his ability to find the trailer jumping into the play. But like I said the other day, his line would be better off coming up as a 5 man unit, that way, the trailer actually becomes a viable option. But whatever line he’s on, is having a hard time accomplishing that because the opposition is closing in on him quickly forcing him to make rushed passes and this turnovers.

That’s why it’s up to him to either hold on to the puck a little longer, drop down lower along the halfwall and make a play to his centerman or to take a hit to make the play. There’s lots of options available as opposed to blindly throwing it into coverage and turning the puck over.

To me, Huberdeau is the opposite of a process guy. I don’t like his process and if I was a coach, he would leave me frustrated 80% of the time. But you deal with the frustrations because his vision and the unique plays he can make going against the flow of the play can lead to a plethora of goals. But without the production, what is he bringing to the table outside of frustrations?

What an exceptionally long read

You should have read the article, it was very insightful

[ComixZone]

That Huberdeau article by Sportsnet is fantastic.

That's the type of sports analysis that we just don't get very often.

...and it wouldn't shock me if the Flames were bankrolling it, because it effectively ends with:

"Huberdeau is really good - but this Flames team is pretty much the worst situation imaginable for him to be playing in."

....c'mon Montreal, Anderson 1 for 1, and let Flames fans move on.

[DeluxeMoustache]

That article was fantastic

It basically confirms everything we have been seeing, pinpoints the moments where things break down, and shows the cause

Key point is that Huberdeau is good and the Flames play stupid hockey

It’s hilarious and painful to watch the other 2 forwards skate straight at the 2 D men.

Or entering the zone in lime with each other. We are coaching our U11s attack triangles on 3 on 2 zone entries, for goodness sake

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't think it's fair to criticize every other player on the team that plays with him. It's fair to say that he is talented for sure, but he is also highly specialized in his talent. He's one of the worst forwards when it comes to controlled zone entries, and he usually comes out on the wrong side when challenged physically. Those things are his limitations and hold his line mates back as much as they hold him back.

The part about structure, I get. Huberdeau needs fast puck carriers to create lanes and space, and this team clearly lacks that. Expecting them to do it is the same as expecting Huberdeau to do it. It's no one's fault if they can't, it's just bad roster building. He doesn't create situations on his own, but he can make plays if other players do the hard work. The article above even states that he isn't a driver. Unfortunately, this team really needs a driver and he was the guy they gave driver money too. Not his fault, bit it is what it is.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think it's fair to criticize every other player on the team that plays with him. It's fair to say that he is talented for sure, but he is also highly specialized in his talent. He's one of the worst forwards when it comes to controlled zone entries, and he usually comes out on the wrong side when challenged physically. Those things are his limitations and hold his line mates back as much as they hold him back.

The part about structure, I get. Huberdeau needs fast puck carriers to create lanes and space, and this team clearly lacks that. Expecting them to do it is the same as expecting Huberdeau to do it. It's no one's fault if they can't, it's just bad roster building. He doesn't create situations on his own, but he can make plays if other players do the hard work. The article above even states that he isn't a driver. Unfortunately, this team really needs a driver and he was the guy they gave driver money too. Not his fault, bit it is what it is.

A lot of the time Huberdeau’s success looks to be exploiting seams before the D can get their structure.

It’s not a knock on every other player, it’s a knock on the coaching to be quite honest for not creating the situations where they can leverage his strengths

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

A lot of the time Huberdeau’s success looks to be exploiting seams before the D can get their structure.

It’s not a knock on every other player, it’s a knock on the coaching to be quite honest for not creating the situations where they can leverage his strengths

This is the result you get when you bump your defense associate coach to the head coaching position.

His expertise is with one side of the game, and his brilliant systems adjustment hasn't yet bore fruit, as they look more lost than ever in the d-zone.

So he's relying on Savard almost entirely for an offensive rejuvenation for struggling players, and his coaching experience is in the OHL..

Maybe both guys will make their marks in a positive way when all is said and done, but a frankenstein project of inexperienced staff not panning out so far is hardly a shock.

The problem last season was getting an extra goal per game out of this offense, and more consistency out of the goaltending.

IMO, I'd say defense was third on the list of needs, and I'm not sure why we thought defensive adjustments would fix the other two.

One has (at least somewhat) fixed itself on its own in Markstrom, but they really needed an experienced guy who understood the workings of an effective NHL offense (and PP) and would have the first idea of what assignments to give Huberdeau's line mates to leverage his strengths.

Conroy got wooed by familiarity when he had a vast pool of talent to choose from. If a bounce back was the goal, then he failed at that HC hire.

But if this hire gets them a couple top talents in the next few years, then it will do the organization more good overall than a good coach whipping these guys into a wildcard team would, so I digress.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I’d rather see an organization astute enough to know how an elite player works, enable him, and reap the rewards, than accept incompetence and hope for the incompetent to one day strike gold

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

We can get a competent hockey mind to crack the Huberdeau code after we clean up in a draft or two.

Let them piece together these obvious solutions when there's a young Hughes-like player here for Huby to play across from. Then leveraging his talent will actually mean something.

It isn't pretty going about it this way, but there's a greater chance of big picture upside than decades of trying to do it the 'honorable' way has shown in retrospect.

I'm willing to see what breaking the cycle of insanity for a short period of time does for the organization. Because what they've done for many years clearly hasn't worked.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Wait until he is 3 years removed from 115 to play effective hockey? I’m not interested in that

[ForeverFlameFan]

At this rate I am just hoping he has a Jeff Skinner-like resurgence, who was a buyout candidate in years 2 and 3 in his Buffalo contract. However, he improved to the same point production in his 4th year and now has been PPG in years 5 and 6 (right now). Hopefully it doesn't take Huberdeau that long, but looking at his point production it does align with the success of the team. If the team is playing well, his point production is staying consistent with that. His best year was Florida's best ever regular season record, where a lot went right for them. I think his production will increase once we begin to play better than what we are doing right now. I would rather draft a very high pick this year and hope we can start to figure things out with the retool. Huberdeau is a big problem right now, but I am confident with the right set of teammates he can still produce again. We have to start accepting that he may never hit 90+ points again, but 70-80 would be nice.

[activeStick]

The sample size of Huberdeau as a Flame with the current roster is a decent enough size to say that what he's been over this span is who he is going to continue to be, I think. Things could change with completely new linemates but without that I think he'll be a 40-50 point player. It's unreal that his play has sunk so low.

EDIT: From that long SN article: "Regardless, Huberdeau too often waits for pucks to come to him rather than proactively moving his feet." Ugh! I've posted a few times about how all the Flames are like this as it's been very obvious and annoying. Allows the other team to close the gap or get set defensively and get in lanes.

[SutterBrother]

Loved the article, and can't say I disagree.

Knowing that we're in the toilet one way or another standings-wise, we may as well go crazylegs offense with kids, and lean on goaltending the other way. We'll continue to lose, but it'll be more entertaining, and might get Huberdau back on his feet.

[memphusk]

So babysit him for the next 8 years?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by memphusk

So babysit him for the next 8 years?

if the Flames continue to play hockey with this garbage system for the next 8 years, I'm not sure how many of us will still be around. This is terribly structured hockey.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by memphusk

So babysit him for the next 8 years?

You could call it that if you were shallow about it. Or you could call it using a player better to maximize the benefit to the team. Just like putting a strong two way centre with two offence minded wingers.

[Royle9]

Wow, that SN article linked by Bingo is borderline frightening.
But it passes the eye test we've all noticed the last few years, just 0 creativity allowed in the Flames system.

Daryl wanted North/South - Dump it in and grind away for a goal
The only line that didn't play like that was Johnny/Elias/Matthew and they dominated the NHL that year offensively.

This really highlights why watching the Flames is so boring, just no offensive creativity...

Also makes me wish Pelletier wasn't injured, he had some good chemistry late with Huberdeau and I felt could be a guy that really worked with him.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

It's really disturbing that Treliving and scouting could have misjudged this player so badly in this case to think he would be a good fit now that more stuff like this comes out.

I mean, in 2022 the guy literally set the NHL single-season record for assists by a left-winger. He was the runner up for the Art Ross. The season's midpoint Hart leader. Making a bit over $4M with another year left on that contract. Who the flying #### is going to look at that player and say "we don't need that guy"? Losing Tkachuk definitely sucked. But 90% of people (including on CP) were saying the Flames won this trade, Huberdeau >> Tkachuk, etc. Complete revisionist history. IMO this is 100% on Huberdeau and whatever issue is going on with him. Nobody bets on the guy who sets the LW assist record in a season to now set the record for largest point drop in NHL history. Hard to blame the scouting staff on this one, unless one thinks they should have used a crystal ball at the fortune teller.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You could call it that if you were shallow about it. Or you could call it using a player better to maximize the benefit to the team. Just like putting a strong two way centre with two offence minded wingers.

Isn't that the top line now.?

[PuckSlap]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Gaudreau also has 4 points this season

I truly believe he misses Calgary. He had rockstar fame while here. With its ups and downs, of course. But I bet he misses feeling important and relevant

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