[Rumour] Friedman: Flames and Hanifin have made progress on contract extension

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t doubt that guy has a connection to the team but I am trying to think of one thing he has got right?

He got the Huska hiring right before anyone else did

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Because Florida played the game really fast it was get the puck and go.

The same thing in Colorado.

These guys are struggling because we want to play more controlled cori stats.

You can still get your corsi stats by playing a rush game.

We lack the team speed to play that way it seems.

I think you're on to something, but I'm not entirely sure what. There's two different ideas you're suggesting here:

1) Huby needs to play fast to be effective. We said the same thing about Bennett and he thrived in Florida. So there's something there maybe.

2) flames play a slower system. This could be true. What is "fast hockey"? Four things right?
- speed of transition
- quantity, quickness and length of passes
- anticipation
- foot speed

I'm not sure Sutter told them to play slow. He actually talked a lot about needing to play fast and we saw that in 2021-22. But then something happened in 2022-23 and the team looked slower. The team brought in players who like to play fast (Huby/Kadri) and the team stopped playing fast. And I'm willing to concede that the lack of quickness to their game probably resulted in less goals and that contributed to missing the playoffs.

But why did they play slow? I think blaming the system at a high level is too easy and also meaningless. What about the system stopped working with new players?

Is the system too complicated? Are we asking too many players to play two-way hockey, which limits the ability for quicker transitions and long passes? Is not allowing players to cheat for offense actually just inhibiting anticipation and foot speed? What exactly are we seeing?

I think some of it is simply confidence and thinking too much, which results in less ability to anticipate. So part of it is a vicious cycle / virtuous cycle. If they were playing better, they would automatically be playing faster through better anticipation, which means they'd be playing even better.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We slow it down.

Huska talked about d to d passes being the worst play and its exactly what we are doing.

Fast has to do with foot speed for sure. Puck movement.

We need our backend to get the puck and go I think thats the biggest difference I am seeing here. Marc Savard talked about the d carrying the puck to create passing lanes.

Huberdeau wants to make the high skill plays but they hit feet and sticks because hes playing slow, if those passes are made 3 seconds earlier and quicker hes hitting them.

The speed and some chaos in the offensive zone allowed him to play in open space. Right now he is getting bodied on the boards and working through stick battles.

He is what he is a very skilled passer who could pop some guys and still get points, but hes not going to win you board battles. He is not Johnny Gaudreau. He is a different player who gets it done a different way but the same results.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I certainly don't disagree that this team has been shy of rebuilding......too shy, so that's not my point when I say what I'm about to say. And I also think that this team hit a cross roads when both Johnny and Tkachuk wanted out 2 seasons ago (and maybe even before that when Mony injuries prevented him from being the player he was) - they chose reload vs. rebuild. A full season and a month removed from that decision, and it certainly looks and feels like it was definitely the wrong one.

But I think what you are preaching about ruthlessness between seasons isn't the right approach either. Building a winner, and more importantly, giving that winner time to find it's way is important. The path to success for MOST teams is far from linear. You need to have some belief in your group, and let them grow. If I think about the version of the Flames that was intact for the 5 years prior to last years offseason, it was driven by: Monahan, Johnny, Tkachuk, Lindholm - with change ups on the back end.

That group had massive ups and downs in regular seasons, and little playoff success. But I think it would be fair to suggest, that giving that group time to try and pull it off, with tweaks to the roster vs. burning it down was the right move. Frustrating for fans to see the swings, but they were showing signs that they COULD potentially get things done. Its so easy to say what ifs, but I do wonder how much more success they would have had if one of these two things were true - Mony stayed healthy, or Bennett ended up closer to a top 6 forward with us (not wanting to debate why he didn't). My point isn't to say they were unlucky, they got lots of luck too that helped them have whatever success they had, my point is the difference between them doing something special and what they did accomplish (which amounts to not much of anything) is razor thin.

Being too ruthless every year, will undoubtedly result in a never ending cycle of rebuild and no success. Building a team is very hard, and on some level, you have to take your shot with the group you have after you've invested in growing from the ground up the way the Flames did with that group post 2014.

All that said, it sure does feel like it's time to start the growth process again for sure.

I should do a better job of explaining what I mean. Maybe it won't really make a difference on if you agree or not, but I don't think I really did a good job of of making my point about being ruthless.


What I mean is that I don't want mid-season trades trying to prop-up a young team. I don't want a half-season's worth of above-expectations play to suddenly shift gears. For instance, I do think that Treliving pulled Calgary out of the last rebuild too early.


I think in a salary cap world - and even more importantly for a Canadian, small market team like Calgary - they have to draft and develop franchise-level players. You don't always have to snag them with a top 3 pick. Last year, for instance, they should have taken a number out of Nashville's book and sold some players, and had more ammo in the hopes of drafting an elite talent. Flames have been good at identifying and drafting them (and even almost drafting them - Kucherov). Players like Fox and Gaudreau, and even players not drafted like Point.



Be more ruthless when you 'call' the season, and try to trade players that don't fit long term. Start reshaping the roster for next season by using the trade deadline. I think the Flames have done a poor job of that under Treliving. Whether it was Treliving, or whether it was ownership is irrelevant. As an organization moving forward, I would like them to shift their focus earlier, scoop up more futures, and then forge ahead again the following season, two tops.


I am actually quite hopeful for the future with Conroy at the helm. He seems to be a GM with a larger focus on the scouting and development side of things. He has also scouted a tonne, and worked closely with the scouting staff. I do think that moving forward, we are more likely to see a bit of a 'sell off' in years that the Flames are not as competitive as hoped, and this is exactly what my point is about being 'ruthless'. I guess a better way to describe it would be more honesty with themselves, or more realistic.



However, I do agree with you 100% - the core needs to stick together and grow up together. I thought this team after the Tkachuk trade may not work as it becomes a mish-mash of pieces, but i was hopeful (and the returns were excellent for Tkachuk, all things considered at the time).



I would like to see this team being run a bit more like Boston and Tampa - no huge trades to try and salvage the season, bottomed-out a few times, missed the playoffs a few times, but they continually added to the core until they won a cup. Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk-Bennett-Giordano-Brodie - I think that was a strong core, with very strong supporting players underneath (Backlund, for instance). They needed MORE core players. I think I must have argued this point about a hundred times in those days - there was nothing wrong with the core, but they needed more help, that's all.


The strength of this franchise for a very long time now was in drafting and development, but they haven't leveraged it far enough. That's the overall point I want to make. Add to the core, not change it up. Flames were almost there had Kucherov been drafted instead of Wotherspoon that year, and maybe that would have seen Calgary go from a final 4 favourite for Panarin into the team he ends up signing for. Now that would have been a great core in my alternate fantasy world. Wouldn't have the room for a Brouwer or a Neal, among other poor value contracts over the years.


Conroy gives me a lot of hope through this frustrating time.

[Azhouse]

That’s funny…because I don’t think Conroy offers much hope at all…

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I think you're on to something, but I'm not entirely sure what. There's two different ideas you're suggesting here:

1) Huby needs to play fast to be effective. We said the same thing about Bennett and he thrived in Florida. So there's something there maybe.

2) flames play a slower system. This could be true. What is "fast hockey"? Four things right?
- speed of transition
- quantity, quickness and length of passes
- anticipation
- foot speed

I'm not sure Sutter told them to play slow. He actually talked a lot about needing to play fast and we saw that in 2021-22. But then something happened in 2022-23 and the team looked slower. The team brought in players who like to play fast (Huby/Kadri) and the team stopped playing fast. And I'm willing to concede that the lack of quickness to their game probably resulted in less goals and that contributed to missing the playoffs.

But why did they play slow? I think blaming the system at a high level is too easy and also meaningless. What about the system stopped working with new players?

Is the system too complicated? Are we asking too many players to play two-way hockey, which limits the ability for quicker transitions and long passes? Is not allowing players to cheat for offense actually just inhibiting anticipation and foot speed? What exactly are we seeing?

I think some of it is simply confidence and thinking too much, which results in less ability to anticipate. So part of it is a vicious cycle / virtuous cycle. If they were playing better, they would automatically be playing faster through better anticipation, which means they'd be playing even better.

I don’t think Huberdeau could play any faster, he’s already having trouble playing at the current pace which was a big criticism Darryl offered him last year.

I’ve said this before and will continue to say it, Huberdeau needs to find a way to evolve his game. If he’s not going to produce in transition, then he needs to check for his chances like the other lines are expected to. That’s how this team was built, it’s how they’re coached and it doesn’t appear things will be changing any time soon. So it’s up to him now to put on the work boots, start playing with more pace, go out and make things happen instead of waiting for things to happen.

That’s why he looks invisible right now. He has no other avenues to fall back on when his bread and butter has been taken away. It’s not all that different from when Gaudreau had his struggles back in 2020, but his game evolved in 21-22 and he was able to find other ways to produce when opponents took away his bread and butter, that was a big evolution to his game. Throw in the defensive component to his game and his line basically became an unstoppable force.

[Hi-Psi]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

That’s funny…because I don’t think Conroy offers much hope at all…

I can see that angle but I honestly think the opposite, or at least I HOPE the opposite. lol

The way I see it, Conroy and Iggy saw firsthand the ineptitude of the organization from a player standpoint. I'm sure they've also spent years listening to the fans and everyone else complaining about the lack of direction in the team, this #### ain't new.

If they stay the same course after all that, I'd say it's on the ownership.

[FanIn80]

I think we need Iggy to join the coaching staff in some capacity. This group of individuals needs a strong voice with a single message... Sutter without the mindgames, if you will.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yeah Vegas would be an argument for depth not against

They were the depth, Oilers were the Stars with bums team

It’s not just any depth though. Those pieces need to be really good and perform above expectations.

You could make the argument that Eichel, Stephenson, Stone, Marchessault, Smith, Pietrangelo, Theodore, Karlsson, Barbashev, and Hill all performed at a star level throughout the playoffs. That’s damn near half the team playing elite hockey.

5 guys acquired via trade too

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I think we need Iggy to join the coaching staff in some capacity. This group of individuals needs a strong voice with a single message... Sutter without the mindgames, if you will.

Iggy was a quiet leader. He lead by example and only spoke in the dressing room when needed.

This has been reiterated throughout the years but when he said something the team listened.

IIRC both Regehr and Conroy were the vocal leaders for the majority of Iggy's time with the Flames.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

Iggy was a quiet leader. He lead by example and only spoke in the dressing room when needed.

This has been reiterated throughout the years but when he said something the team listened.

IIRC both Regehr and Conroy were the vocal leaders for the majority of Iggy's time with the Flames.

Iginla was vocal enough with his teammates as has been shown by the stories Conroy tells. (Iginla telling Conroy not to dump the Puck in his corner on a 3 on 2). Don't need much more than that imo.

[Yeah_Baby]

Now, let's not forget either that (allegedly) the room was 'Weird' later on in the Iginla years. Pretty sure are recently as the Stajan Barn Burner episode this summer Matt talked about it being a strange dynamic in the room to walk into after the Phaneuf trade.

[GreenLantern2814]

Hanifin and Lindholm must have their agents calling Conroy every day, because the way things are going, they are both costing themselves tens of millions.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Now, let's not forget either that (allegedly) the room was 'Weird' later on in the Iginla years. Pretty sure are recently as the Stajan Barn Burner episode this summer Matt talked about it being a strange dynamic in the room to walk into after the Phaneuf trade.

I believe there was a divide between Regehr and Iginla. With Regehr feeling that the team needed to commit to team defense and the system the coach's were asking for, and Iginla wanting more ability to free lance to generate offense.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I think we need Iggy to join the coaching staff in some capacity. This group of individuals needs a strong voice with a single message... Sutter without the mindgames, if you will.

Promoting internal hires is the problem, not the solution.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Promoting internal hires is the problem, not the solution.

When you pull someone from the locker room to the board room and groom them for more than a decade to become the GM then the internal promotion makes the most sense.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I believe there was a divide between Regehr and Iginla. With Regehr feeling that the team needed to commit to team defense and the system the coach's were asking for, and Iginla wanting more ability to free lance to generate offense.

I think the divide was somehow three way, and did involve Phaneuf. I also think it was about more than strategy (though that was a big part).

https://www.nbcsports.com/nhl/news/k...-room-fighting

Edit: oddly enough hough:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CalgaryFlam..._out_together/

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think the Phaneuf/Regehr divide was earlier and then the Iggy/Regehr divide came later, after Dion was gone.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I think we need Iggy to join the coaching staff in some capacity. This group of individuals needs a strong voice with a single message... Sutter without the mindgames, if you will.

If someone like Backlund isn't leading in the room, there's nothing Iggy would be able to do with this group.

That would be putting him in a position to fail as his first coaching role with the team too and burning away his role in the franchise.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t think Huberdeau could play any faster, he’s already having trouble playing at the current pace which was a big criticism Darryl offered him last year.

I’ve said this before and will continue to say it, Huberdeau needs to find a way to evolve his game. If he’s not going to produce in transition, then he needs to check for his chances like the other lines are expected to. That’s how this team was built, it’s how they’re coached and it doesn’t appear things will be changing any time soon. So it’s up to him now to put on the work boots, start playing with more pace, go out and make things happen instead of waiting for things to happen.

That’s why he looks invisible right now. He has no other avenues to fall back on when his bread and butter has been taken away. It’s not all that different from when Gaudreau had his struggles back in 2020, but his game evolved in 21-22 and he was able to find other ways to produce when opponents took away his bread and butter, that was a big evolution to his game. Throw in the defensive component to his game and his line basically became an unstoppable force.

This has been a problem with Flames fans mentality for years..

You can't bring in a certain player and expect him to completely change his game, after playing a certain way basically his whole career, and maintain the same level of success.

We need to play players to their strengths if we expect them to contribute at the same levels they have prior.

I can understand getting an offensive player to play in a checking role to build his overall game but expecting him to contribute at the same level isn't overly fair to the player.

Same goes with expecting Huberdeau to play primarily a dump and chase, cycle the puck down low game and expect the same results he got when his line would carry the puck in and make quick plays off the rush.

Maybe if we had a player to play him with that was elite at making plays off the boards - like Tkachuk has shown in the past - he could have stronger offensive numbers.

The puzzling part about it all is Conroy said they wanted to play a more modern offensive system but the results have not been there as of yet.

They are more boring to watch than ever before. They have no identity and can't get anything going at 5v5 or on the PP.