Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So you might still vote Liberal if they axe the tax, but would not consider a vote for CPC because they will axe the tax?

I wouldn't consider it based on what I see from DS in Alberta, Ford in Ontario, Moe is Saskatchewan and of course, the horrific candidates the have been running federally- PP being the least electable of the bunch (Although that Sheer was a really terrible candidate)

Con is a great name for this party

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Thanks for the answer and changing your view somewhat, but I feel you are still dodging that the Liberals heavily defended their policies multiple times this year (as I posted in my prior post) despite all evidence of impact and outcries...until it hit their poll so bad they are are risk of a landslide loss. This was not Liberals getting an epiphany about carbon taxes hurting folks too much let's be honest.

Heat pumps is not a carbon efficient solution in itself when in Nova Scotia most of their electricity is still powered by coal (which also has a heavy carbon tax on it). Replacing all this coal power to renewable sources is an expensive task and the cost of this electricity may be even higher. So they will still get hit with carbon tax and higher prices once they go to heating pumps.

Home heating oil is an easy target because it's much more prevalent in Atlantic Canada and the hit is immediately noticeable after the Liberal government told Newfoundland and Labrador, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and PEI to suck it and forced the removal of the provinces' exemptions on home heating oil.

Would you say, that by the Liberals doing this exemption (exemptions that the provinces previously had in place prior to Liberal forcing the matter), that they should review all carbon tax and pause / cancel other aspects that are overly punitive to other jurisdictions? Because they just opened this can of worms.

What incentive would someone have to switch from heating oil to heat pumps when they will pay less over 3 years now as a result of the exemption? See where this falls apart? Well here comes the free heat pumps to Atlantic Canadians! A heat pump installation can cost 5000$ to 15000$ (and you can be sure Liberals will spend more through administration). That's awfully nice of you as an Albertan to provide your taxpayer money to Atlantic Canada so they can get free heat pumps while you continue to pay carbon tax while having less of a carbon footprint.

I just want to see how you will still attempt to spin this somehow.

I'm not spinning anything.

Liberals are realizing the hurt will be too much(particularly for their election prospects).

How is that not acknowledging they are doing this for fear of losing seats? Do I need to put it on a bumper sticker? Agreeing more with GGG now, this undermines everything.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by aaronck

I wouldn't consider it based on what I see from DS in Alberta, Ford in Ontario, Moe is Saskatchewan and of course, the horrific candidates the have been running federally- PP being the least electable of the bunch (Although that Sheer was a really terrible candidate)

Con is a great name for this party

Consider what?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Consider what?

I see PP's interview style has rubbed off on you.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Heat pumps is not a carbon efficient solution in itself when in Nova Scotia most of their electricity is still powered by coal (which also has a heavy carbon tax on it). Replacing all this coal power to renewable sources is an expensive task and the cost of this electricity may be even higher. So they will still get hit with carbon tax and higher prices once they go to heating pumps.

That's a provincial failure. Newfoundland and Quebec both produce significant surpluses of carbon-free electricity and export tons, but Nova Scotia continues to burn coal for their power.

What incentive would someone have to switch from heating oil to heat pumps when they will pay less over 3 years now as a result of the exemption?

Because despite people losing their minds over it, the carbon tax really doesn't make much of a difference at its current price. Right now, heating oil with an 80-85% efficient furnace (which is probably about average given the average age of installed units) costs about $0.205 per kWh of heat generated and last winter it was more like $0.25/kWh. If you remove the carbon tax, that becomes about $0.186 per kWh of heat (or $0.23 last year). So 8-9% savings depending on the price of heating oil.

With a heat pump though, at an average electricity price of about $0.15/kWh and a heating season average COP of about 2.5, you'd be paying $0.06 per kWh of heat generated which is a 71% savings compared to with the carbon tax and 68% compared to without the carbon tax. So the difference in savings in the carbon tax vs. no carbon tax scenario is effectively meaningless.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

How much does it currently cost an average home in Atlantic Canada to heat it?

https://ycharts.com/indicators/halif...e%20year%20ago.

September 30, 2023 1.799

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

How much does it currently cost an average home in Atlantic Canada to heat it?

https://westnovasuperline.ca/how-muc...e-this-winter/

oil customers, on average a typical house with four people in it should burn about three to four tanks of oil in a year to heat your home and hot water, about 2800 litres of oil.

2800L x 1.799 = 5037$ for a winter if using the current pricing.
2800L x 1.6252 = 4550.56$, savings of 486.44$ if removing the carbon tax increase

Now of course if you see the graph you will note that last year was higher even before the carbon tax as a result of the spike in oil after the war and this has being alluded to, but in 2021 is was significantly lower, and prior to the new carbon tax in June it was at 1.253. It just shows how much impact the new carbon tax has.

The carbon tax on home heating oil set July 1 2023 was 17.38

https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/c...arbon-tax.html

Home heating oil
The carbon tax on home heating oil will increase to 17.38 cents per litre. The cost to fill an average oil tank (900L) will increase by $179.88. Assuming a typical home is heated with 2000 litres of oil annually, the average annual cost for a residential customer is estimated to increase by $399.74.

As you can see, the numbers can fluctuate widely, but the net cost associated with carbon tax was higher than the Liberal claim of savings (250$) even in their most recent release (NB's average of 2000L is very conservative).

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

I see PP's interview style has rubbed off on you.

I assume the Dr has blocked himself?

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Firebot

https://ycharts.com/indicators/halif...e%20year%20ago.

September 30, 2023 1.799





https://westnovasuperline.ca/how-muc...e-this-winter/



2800L x 1.799 = 5037$ for a winter if using the current pricing.
2800L x 1.6252 = 4550.56$, savings of 486.44$ if removing the carbon tax increase

Now of course if you see the graph you will note that last year was higher even before the carbon tax as a result of the spike in oil after the war and this has being alluded to, but in 2021 is was significantly lower, and prior to the new carbon tax in June it was at 1.253. It just shows how much impact the new carbon tax has.

The carbon tax on home heating oil set July 1 2023 was 17.38

https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/c...arbon-tax.html

Home heating oil
The carbon tax on home heating oil will increase to 17.38 cents per litre. The cost to fill an average oil tank (900L) will increase by $179.88. Assuming a typical home is heated with 2000 litres of oil annually, the average annual cost for a residential customer is estimated to increase by $399.74.

As you can see, the numbers can fluctuate widely, but the net cost associated with carbon tax was higher than the Liberal claim of savings (250$) even in their most recent release (NB's average of 2000L is very conservative).

Thanks, that's a pretty insane amount even without the carbon tax. Not to mention, trying to entice people to switch means they have to pay massive sums to remove those oil tanks, reclamation, etc.

It was bound to happen. This is the first to fall because the impact from the percentage is high enough. Soon all the others will fall behind it. I'd say you can kiss the carbon tax goodbye very soon. They've kicked the ball and it's started to roll downhill.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Firebot

2800L x 1.799 = 5037$ for a winter if using the current pricing.
2800L x 1.6252 = 4550.56$, savings of 486.44$ if removing the carbon tax increase

Now of course if you see the graph you will note that last year was higher even before the carbon tax as a result of the spike in oil after the war and this has being alluded to, but in 2021 is was significantly lower, and prior to the new carbon tax in June it was at 1.253. It just shows how much impact the new carbon tax has.

The carbon tax on home heating oil set July 1 2023 was 17.38

https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/c...arbon-tax.html

Home heating oil
The carbon tax on home heating oil will increase to 17.38 cents per litre. The cost to fill an average oil tank (900L) will increase by $179.88. Assuming a typical home is heated with 2000 litres of oil annually, the average annual cost for a residential customer is estimated to increase by $399.74.

As you can see, the numbers can fluctuate widely, but the net cost associated with carbon tax was higher than the Liberal claim of savings (250$) even in their most recent release (NB's average of 2000L is very conservative).

Even completely ignoring carbon, anyone paying $5K a year to heat their house in the Maritimes who doesn't install a heat pump is just flushing their money down the toilet. At a COP of 2.5, they'd be saving about $2.5-3.5K a year in heating costs based on the average Atlantic Canada electricity prices.

Yeah, I get that not everyone has cash kicking around, but if you can afford to pay $5K (or $4.55K without the carbon tax) for heating, surely you can take advantage of the many government programs and get a heat pump with a 2-3 year payback, after which point you're saving thousands of dollars per year. You could even put the heat pump on a credit card at 20% interest and still pay it off within 5 years just on the energy savings.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by aaronck

I assume the Dr has blocked himself?

Your response to the question didn’t make sense to me.

[Yoho]

Who could have seen this coming?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1719086910558417071

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Consider what?

Are you having a stroke??

[chemgear]

Look at all these racists. /s

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...medium=twitter

Forty-four per cent of Canadians think immigration levels are too high, up from 27 per cent last year, according to a survey conducted by the Environics Institute for Survey Research, in partnership with the Century Initiative, an organization that advocates for Canada’s population to hit 100 million by 2100. This was the largest change in sentiment between surveys that Environics has observed in four-plus decades of polling on the topic.

The survey was published just before the federal government unveils its next three-year plan for immigration this week, covering 2024 to 2026. Last year, Ottawa said it was aiming to admit 500,000 permanent residents annually by 2025, part of a steady increase since the Liberal Party came to power in 2015.

Of late, the population increase is mostly driven by the arrival of temporary residents, such as international students and workers, many of whom wish to settle permanently in Canada. There are no limits on the issuance of temporary visas, although Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said last week that his government was considering a cap.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Your response to the question didn’t make sense to me.

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So you might still vote Liberal if they axe the tax, but would not consider a vote for CPC because they will axe the tax?

I wouldn't consider it based on what I see from DS in Alberta, Ford in Ontario, Moe is Saskatchewan and of course, the horrific candidates the have been running federally- PP being the least electable of the bunch (Although that Sheer was a really terrible candidate)

Sorry you didn't understand, I thought it was pretty clear

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Are you having a stroke??

He wouldn’t consider voting Liberal?

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Who could have seen this coming?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1719086910558417071

No one is shocked that Gilead is going full Gilead under his watchful eye.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

He wouldn’t consider voting Liberal?

If only there was some context in the post telling exactly which of the two you mentioned he wouldn’t consider. If only some names, perhaps the name of a party leader, was mentioned… so that it would be possible to determine what he was talking about.

Alas, we’ll never know.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If only there was some context in the post telling exactly which of the two you mentioned he wouldn’t consider. If only some names, perhaps the name of a party leader, was mentioned… so that it would be possible to determine what he was talking about.

Alas, we’ll never know.

Curious as to what you think about the carbon tax exemption.

Also wondering if you would vote Liberal next election if the Liberals decided to axe the carbon tax, since you have voted Liberal in the past.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Curious as to what you think about the carbon tax exemption.

Also wondering if you would vote Liberal next election if the Liberals decided to axe the carbon tax, since you have voted Liberal in the past.

I don’t care and wouldn’t ever base my vote on whether the carbon tax was saying or going anyway.

Who have you voted for in the past?

[Wormius]

And so begins yet another round of “I asked you first…”