Blow it up!

[kyuss275]

Having a couple of high priced cap hits to hit the floor is no big deal. What we need now is remaining ufa’s to force Conroys hand by saying they won’t re-sign under any conditions.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Having a couple of high priced cap hits to hit the floor is no big deal. What we need now is remaining ufa’s to force Conroys hand by saying they won’t re-sign under any conditions.

Yup, I don't even want them to have an option to re-sign players. I hope Florida turns it around though. The Flames really need their pick

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Having a couple of high priced cap hits to hit the floor is no big deal. What we need now is remaining ufa’s to force Conroys hand by saying they won’t re-sign under any conditions.

It's not unless they create a miserable locker room for the young guys. Right now it has to be bad, considering all the commentary coming out.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Goriders

There aren’t enough guys who hate losing on this team. Too many retirement contracts.

I’d keep the following and start working the phones to get rid of the rest:

Markstrom
Coronato
Anderson
Backlund
Zadorov
Gilbert
Mangiapane
Greer
Duehr
Lindholm

One way or another. Huberdeau has to leave.

Seriously? Gilbert and Duehr and Greer are replaceable guys 0- they aren't guys you prioritize keeping. if someone offers you something half-decent, you take it.


As for the rest, if you think you might have a leadership problem, you don't keep those leaders around. I mean, the team is reallly struggling and you're answer is that half the lineup has to stay?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Saqe

It's not unless they create a miserable locker room for the young guys. Right now it has to be bad, considering all the commentary coming out.

Yeah, but the team is expected to be good and that causes tension. If they embrace the suck then the media questions become a lot friendly and pressure is off.

[CliffFletcher]

Rebuilds have three elements:

A) Finishing near the bottom of the standings and drafting blue-chip prospects.

B) Trading veterans for picks and prospects to bulk up the prospect pool.

C) Using cap space to get more picks and prospects from contending teams up against the cap.

The Flames look like they’ll be backing into A. However, it will still require a sea change among ownership and management to embrace B and C. Like a lot of teams, it will take sustained losing for the bigwigs to accept the inevitable. Some never do.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Ped

Seriously? Gilbert and Duehr and Greer are replaceable guys 0- they aren't guys you prioritize keeping. if someone offers you something half-decent, you take it.


As for the rest, if you think you might have a leadership problem, you don't keep those leaders around. I mean, the team is reallly struggling and you're answer is that half the lineup has to stay?

I would keep Coronato and Andersson


The rest can go with a fair offer

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, but the team is expected to be good and that causes tension. If they embrace the suck then the media questions become a lot friendly and pressure is off.

I don't think they like each other too much lol. It's the body language, this is not a team right now heck Zadorov said it himself.

But given the length of these contracts that were handed out and the age of the players, I'm not sure they will be too happy to spend rest of their careers sucking. I mean who knows in the end, doesn't seem like they care too much right now.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I don't think they like each other too much lol. It's the body language, this is not a team right now heck Zadorov said it himself.

But given the length of these contracts that were handed out and the age of the players, I'm not sure they will be too happy to spend rest of their careers sucking. I mean who knows in the end, doesn't seem like they care too much right now.

The guys with term don't really have a choice. No one is taking on the Huberdeau/Kadri/Coleman contracts. If they don't want to be on a bad team than they should suck less lol.

Once there are zero expectations maybe Huberdeau will re-find his game a little.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by devo22

what was the line at the presser back then? "I'm not ever allowed to use the word 'rebuild'"? The fish rots from the head down. No one is giving Treliving a pass, but ownership calls the shots in terms of direction. It's not the GM's decision whether to rebuild or not.

It’s probably like any other business. Build a good product and make profit.
Treliving failed miserably at the first part and I doubt the profit is good with a bad product.

Rebuild is not the only way to put a good product on the ice. He had NINE years!!!!!

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The guys with term don't really have a choice. No one is taking on the Huberdeau/Kadri/Coleman contracts. If they don't want to be on a bad team than they should suck less lol.

Once there are zero expectations maybe Huberdeau will re-find his game a little.

Yeah, impossible to move those deals right now given the current cap environment. It's a real stinker of a situation.

[keenan87]

Fantasy World:

Start with these trades (balance with cap dumps etc)
Trade 1: Elias Lindholm for Dawson Mercer
Trade 2: Noah Hanifin (signed) for Juraj Slafkovsky
Trade 3: Jacob Markstrom (50%) for 1st Round
Trade 4: Chris Tanev for Philip Tomasino
Trade 5: Nikita Zadorov for 2nd Round

Bring up:
Ilya Solovyov
Jeremie Poirier
Connor Zary

Leave the following as veterans (try to ship some out in the off-season like Coleman and Backlund):
Jonathan Huberdeau
Nazem Kadri
Rasmus Andersson
Blake Coleman
Mackenzie Weegar
Mikael Backlund

Now, you will have a young group of:
Dawson Mercer
Juraj Slafkovsky
Philip Tomasino
Connor Zary
Jacob Pelletier
Dustin Wolf
Matt Coronato
Ilya Solovyov
Jeremie Poirier

And the Flames go into the off-season with 2 1st Round Picks + 2 2nd Round Picks. Hopefully their own pick is Top 5.

They will also have Honzek and all the 2023 draft picks in their prospect cupboard.

Rebuild on the fly completed.

[8sPOT]

Is it just me or does it feel exhausting being a Flames fan these days?

Its hard to watch this team play this year, and the crappy outlook in future years doesn't look any better.

Feels like the chance to start a meaningful rebuild was this past off-season. And it also seems unlikely that a rookie GM would start a rebuild after his first year.

Stuck in limbo as per usual with this team. Not good enough to win, not bad enough to get a top pick.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Ped

Seriously? Gilbert and Duehr and Greer are replaceable guys 0- they aren't guys you prioritize keeping. if someone offers you something half-decent, you take it.


As for the rest, if you think you might have a leadership problem, you don't keep those leaders around. I mean, the team is reallly struggling and you're answer is that half the lineup has to stay?

Those are the only guys I think actually care. I’m getting rid of the tuned out guys.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Fantasy World:

Start with these trades (balance with cap dumps etc)
Trade 1: Elias Lindholm for Dawson Mercer
Trade 2: Noah Hanifin (signed) for Juraj Slafkovsky
Trade 3: Jacob Markstrom (50%) for 1st Round
Trade 4: Chris Tanev for Philip Tomasino
Trade 5: Nikita Zadorov for 2nd Round

First trade is not happening. Mercer is much more valuable to NJ than Lindholm. They already acquired their rental in Toffoli. Pointless to get Lindholm when they've got Hughes and Hischier.

Second trade doesn't make sense for Montreal at all, even if Slaf has not been as good as hoped. Guhle is their future top pairing LD with Reinbacher.

Third trade won't happen at 50%. Maybe a 2nd round pick and an A-/B+ prospect, but we would need to take on a very bad contract that is equal to or greater than 6m. I'd still do it. Vladar likely makes more sense for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Why does Nashville even entertain this, they're in the same boat as us. Tanev to Vancouver at 50%, reunited with Quinn Hughes and perhaps we can get more than we think. Or just another contender riddled with injuries. Could see Carolina doing it if Pesce doesn't get any better. Injuries are bound to happen; Tanev would fetch something at least.

5th trade is fine... I think I'd rather keep Z though. One of the few players that gives a damn, can be a placeholder as the #4 D until someone else is better... Which could very well be right now because Solovyov is playing great.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

Is it just me or does it feel exhausting being a Flames fan these days?

Its hard to watch this team play this year, and the crappy outlook in future years doesn't look any better.

Feels like the chance to start a meaningful rebuild was this past off-season. And it also seems unlikely that a rookie GM would start a rebuild after his first year.

Stuck in limbo as per usual with this team. Not good enough to win, not bad enough to get a top pick.

It's really hard for me to say, but this is not a good franchise that is focused on winning championships. Every great year like 2 seasons ago is marred with several seasons of misfortune and frustrating products simply because the team never moves away from spending to the cap, and aiming to make the playoffs no matter the cost. A great franchise would have taken a step back when Gaudeau and Tkachuk wanted out 16 months ago and made a tough decision to move them and other core pieces for futures which would possibly already be paying dividends this year.

Unless Conroy has the backbone to stand up to Edwards and change the way this team does business, things are never changing. Treliving was a yes man who was terribly overrated here. In 9 seasons he has next to nothing to show for his mandate of "building a perennial winner" and simply left this team in ruins when he jumped ship. Do I blame him if his hands were indeed tied by ownership? Not really. But he didn't need to go postal and obliterate this team with some of the worst contracts ever signed in the NHL before bowing out. Maybe it will go down as the kick in the nuts ownership needed to change, but I don't know if anything will make that happen now that they have their new building.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Rebuilds have three elements:

A) Finishing near the bottom of the standings and drafting blue-chip prospects.

B) Trading veterans for picks and prospects to bulk up the prospect pool.

C) Using cap space to get more picks and prospects from contending teams up against the cap.

The Flames look like they’ll be backing into A. However, it will still require a sea change among ownership and management to embrace B and C. Like a lot of teams, it will take sustained losing for the bigwigs to accept the inevitable. Some never do.

How about let’s just start with commitment to building through the draft and stop signing old UFA’s.

I’m not necessarily on team “blow it up”. While trading your players for picks sounds awesome, I’m not exactly sure that winners get built that way. Being good at drafting and development is what matters most IMO.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

First trade is not happening. Mercer is much more valuable to NJ than Lindholm. They already acquired their rental in Toffoli. Pointless to get Lindholm when they've got Hughes and Hischier.

Second trade doesn't make sense for Montreal at all, even if Slaf has not been as good as hoped. Guhle is their future top pairing LD with Reinbacher.

Third trade won't happen at 50%. Maybe a 2nd round pick and an A-/B+ prospect, but we would need to take on a very bad contract that is equal to or greater than 6m. I'd still do it. Vladar likely makes more sense for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Why does Nashville even entertain this, they're in the same boat as us. Tanev to Vancouver at 50%, reunited with Quinn Hughes and perhaps we can get more than we think. Or just another contender riddled with injuries. Could see Carolina doing it if Pesce doesn't get any better. Injuries are bound to happen; Tanev would fetch something at least.

5th trade is fine... I think I'd rather keep Z though. One of the few players that gives a damn, can be a placeholder as the #4 D until someone else is better... Which could very well be right now because Solovyov is playing great.

Fair enough. I do think if the Flames play this right, it can be their final shot on getting some futures for all these upcoming UFAs. Instead of re-signing, trading a bunch will kickstart the rebuild in a good way.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Rebuilds have three elements:

A) Finishing near the bottom of the standings and drafting blue-chip prospects.

B) Trading veterans for picks and prospects to bulk up the prospect pool.

C) Using cap space to get more picks and prospects from contending teams up against the cap.

The Flames look like they’ll be backing into A. However, it will still require a sea change among ownership and management to embrace B and C. Like a lot of teams, it will take sustained losing for the bigwigs to accept the inevitable. Some never do.

Kadri and Huberdeau are untradeable. So they’re out for B).

But we could part with the other pending FAs via trade. Keep the core, hope for a high pick this year. That would go a long way to fulfilling B).

C) will never happen though. With Kadri, Hubes and Marky signed, we won’t be going for a long term rebuild. We’ll have to hope that trading Zad, Lindy, Hannifin and maybe tanev will be enough to get us the draft picks and prospects we need to go a new direction.

Then hope Marky, Hubes and Kadri have enough left in the tank to be complementary pieces around a couple young stars that we selected with those picks. Since we’ll only draft high once, it’ll mean we’ll need some luck drafting a player that outshines their draft position.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yeah those contracts aren't much of a problem in a re-build. In fact they help force the re-build because it limits any other alternative.

Otherwise as we have seen they will go shopping in free agency and just compound the issue.

The Huberdeau and Kadri cap hits will keep us away from dipping into free agency.