[PGT] Flames lose 3-0 to Blues. The 'they'll never score again' edition

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, that plus the number he wanted looked too high at the time anyway. I suspect he wanted $9.5m x 6 years. He looked good, but hadn't produced at that level at the time. So he got a 3 year deal where he was the higest paid Flame, made $9M the last year and was guaranteed another year (at least) at $9M.

I heard it was in the mid eights.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I agree with most of what you say here, but there’s no reason to believe Verhaeghe was available. Florida used this deal to get rid of two guys who didn’t fit into their plans going forward. But judging by the other deals that were rumoured to be offered, the Flames didn’t have a whole lot of choice. Florida’s offer was the best return they were going to get.

The bad call was signing Huberdeau to the extension before he had played a single game. And that was a desperate effort to change the narrative about Calgary being a laughingstock that nobody wanted to play for.

Verhaeghe was only a 50 point player at the time. It's not like the ask was for Barkov or Ekblad who would've been fair game for someone who coveted Tkachuk as much as he did and called him "generational." Even if Verhaeghe wasn't on the table, look at Carolina who was offering a nice haul.

At the end of the day, the Huberdeau trade on the surface wasn't bad, it looked like a huge haul. The real problem was the lack of due diligence, poor use of assets and proper talent evaluation which is what I had been harping on that management group for years. All those mistakes signing UFAs and trading draft picks didn't seem to teach them a damn lesson and probably fittingly, it culminates with perhaps the 2 biggest mistakes in Treliving's history with this franchise.

The saddest part is, we still have approximately 84% of Kadri's contract remaining and 99% of Huberdeau's. I don't even want to think about that 1st round pick to Montreal.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I heard it was in the mid eights.

I remember thinking at the time I would do $8.5M x 7 or 8. To me, it was critical to sign Tkachuk. Sign core players for as long you can because they only get more expensive later on. Mangiapane was another one I couldn't believe how much nickel and diming there was. Kid looked like he was going to be a real keeper all the way back to when he outplayed Sam Bennett in the Penticton tournament.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

This team is broken on so many different levels and we are starting to see the cracks at every point of the organization.

From a players standpoint you have someone like Zadorov publicly calling out the effort of the team and questioning what excuses will be used now. He's obviously aware of character issues in the room and the level of frustration he shared with the media is probably just the tip of the iceberg. It's refreshing to hear his take but it certainly begs the question of dissention in the room.

Coaching has been mediocre at best and clearly seems that this position was downgraded from last year (with the exception of removing the negative energy of Darryl). Watching Huska's presser last night made me realize that he's a puppet to this group. Barn Burner alluded to it as well when they said he's paralyzed to play the role of tough guy because of the circumstances of last year. He was walking on egg shells last night when critiquing Kadri and Huberdeau's game. Who knows what's happening behind closed doors but you can sense he's forced into the role of good cop. Without the ability to be a strong figure I would question why an internal hire was made for this group considering what transpired last season.

The management team doubled down on this group and actually bought the narrative that toxicity and negativity was the main issue with this group. It's frightening to know that a bunch of hockey minded experts (some who have played the game before) couldn't see past the teams warts and lack of skill. We invested in people who continue to believe in this core as demonstrated by multiple reports that they are trying to secure Lindholm and Hanafin long term.

Finally the biggest issue of all is with ownership. When your representative is John Bean who openly chastised the media for suggesting a rebuild then you know you're in trouble. His condescending smug nature certainly demonstrates a lack of respect for fans of this team. It's hard to support a team that is so delusional in it's thinking that they are not even allowed to use the 'R' word. Absolutely pathetic and completely tone deaf. That presser that he did with Maloney soured my view of the organization and made me question why I invest financially in this team.

It's hard to be positive about the future when there is so many things wrong with this organization starting at the top and trickling its way down.

Not sure what the gripe is about the Flames. What we're seeing now, should've been like this all season long last season. Just pisses me off that every time there's a great draft year upcoming, the Flames want to avoid it like a plague. It's just bad business decision and saying all the crap about pride. WTF?!? makes no sense in building a proper team. I really don't get most of the fans either. When the team is mediocre, fans want them to make the playoffs. When the team is as bad as it is now and on a rebuilding process, they complain that the team suck and want a better team. This is what you get when you want a fast rebuild with pride taken into account. This is where you keep building mediocre teams and hope to make the playoffs by being #8 in the conference every year as a bubble team! The only hope this franchise have going forward is to realize the mistakes they've made in the past 2 rebuilds and f*** the pride crap. Do a proper rebuild. I don't think most of the gripers here want that, unfortunately!

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

I don't know how we can blame coaching for this start. Most people who are complaining about issues on this board seem to be echoed by the coach. The change is system is not the problem here. These are the same star players as last year and it's the same issues scoring - different coach then. The coach saw the terrible effort last night and said so in the post-game presser.

Coaching is not the problem, never was. The coaching graveyard that is this franchise doesn't deserve another new coach for a while.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Not sure what the gripe is about the Flames. What we're seeing now, should've been like this all season long last season. Just pisses me off that every time there's a great draft year upcoming, the Flames want to avoid it like a plague. It's just bad business decision and saying all the crap about pride. WTF?!? makes no sense in building a proper team. I really don't get most of the fans either. When the team is mediocre, fans want them to make the playoffs. When the team is as bad as it is now and on a rebuilding process, they complain that the team suck and want a better team. This is what you get when you want a fast rebuild with pride taken into account. This is where you keep building mediocre teams and hope to make the playoffs by being #8 in the conference every year as a bubble team! The only hope this franchise have going forward is to realize the mistakes they've made in the past 2 rebuilds and f*** the pride crap. Do a proper rebuild. I don't think most of the gripers here want that, unfortunately!

Definitely bad timing. If the Flames sucked this bad last season or if Bedard was in this year's draft, maybe the Flames would be in a race for a franchise altering player that could actually get this fanbase excited.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Definitely bad timing. If the Flames sucked this bad last season or if Bedard was in this year's draft, maybe the Flames would be in a race for a franchise altering player that could actually get this fanbase excited.

It's funny too, with Gaudreau and Tkachuk leaving, the opportunity was gift wrapped to us. I know a lot of people love the sound byte of Bean saying he isn't allowed to use the word "rebuild", but he also said that there was a rebuilding type of offer on the table for Tkachuk, and that they would have taken it. I think the avoidance of the word is more about marketing. Lots of teams go through rebuilding, but the management doesn't come right out and say it.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's funny too, with Gaudreau and Tkachuk leaving, the opportunity was gift wrapped to us. I know a lot of people love the sound byte of Bean saying he isn't allowed to use the word "rebuild", but he also said that there was a rebuilding type of offer on the table for Tkachuk, and that they would have taken it. I think the avoidance of the word is more about marketing. Lots of teams go through rebuilding, but the management doesn't come right out and say it.

There was an alleged deal involving Martin Necas that would've been interesting: talented young, 23 yr old center, former 1st round pick with tremendous upside. He also lead a very good Carolina team in scoring last season who played a very similar system as Darryl deployed. Just saying...Necas would've been a heck of a building block going forward.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

There was an alleged deal involving Martin Necas that would've been interesting: talented young, 23 yr old center, former 1st round pick with tremendous upside. He also lead a very good Carolina team in scoring last season who played a very similar system as Darryl deployed. Just saying...Necas would've been a heck of a building block going forward.

Right, but that could have all changed when he became a flame.. we acquired a 115 points player who was at a 100 point pace the 4 years before.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I'm starting to think he's just cracked under the pressure.

You go into a team already the highest ever paid player in the franchise's history in a town that has nothing for pro sports except hockey for 7 months of the year.

I'd imagine that's a slightly different situation to being the 3rd most notable name on the team in a non hockey market.

Some guys just aren't cut out for that kind of pressure and attention.

If we bring in any superstar in the future to sign long term we should ensure that the guy can handle being in the spotlight first

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I heard it was in the mid eights.

That seems very unlikely given his last year and his QO.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Right, but that could have all changed when he became a flame.. we acquired a 115 points player who was at a 100 point pace the 4 years before.

29 year old player and pending UFA versus a 23 year old player with team control though. The Flames would have been able to bide their time before signing him to a max term deal for an absurd amount of money.

Also, other players did just fine. Toffoli and Backlund had career years, Dube had decent production. Even Kadri put up production within his career norm. There is no reason to think another player would have plummeted in production just because Huberdeau did.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I'm starting to think he's just cracked under the pressure.

You go into a team already the highest ever paid player in the franchise's history in a town that has nothing for pro sports except hockey for 7 months of the year.

I'd imagine that's a slightly different situation to being the 3rd most notable name on the team in a non hockey market.

Some guys just aren't cut out for that kind of pressure and attention.

If we bring in any superstar in the future to sign long term we should ensure that the guy can handle being in the spotlight first

He had a history of choking in the playoffs

So yeah pressure is not his thing

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

He had a history of choking in the playoffs

So yeah pressure is not his thing

I don't know about pressure or if that's a thing. The best I've seen Huberdeau play was in the playoffs 2021-22 in the first round series against Tampa. Not the 115 point season. But generally playoffs haven't been his thing, he's always been more of a perimeter player and that stuff just doesn't fly in the postseason. That or the over passing / looking for the perfect play.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That seems very unlikely given his last year and his QO.

8.5x8 would have been a contract that wasn’t comfortable at the time. Came from a guy who knew the Flames signed Gudbranson before it was announced by a good week or two. He interacts with players directly and he hasn’t made up anything else. Take it for what you will

[dino7c]

Nevermind read it wrong

[Tsawwassen]

Postgame links
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/2566473/
https://www.espn.com/nhl/recap/_/gameId/401559344
https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/st-lou...boxscore-40126

[Ped]

Really, I've said it before, but after what happened with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, it's no surprise that the Flames wanted to get Huberdeau (and Weegar) under contract to avoid the same mess.


While it might have been smarter in hindsight to wait, it's not like Huberdeau was a one-hit wonder - he had been consistently excellent, at least offensively. Imagine the optics if they hadn't been signed and gone through the season with the same circus as the year before.


This is hindsight GMing at its best. Virtually everyone in the hockey world was praising how Treliving turned an impossible situation into what he did.


Kadri, on the other hand, had all sorts of red flags before that deal was signed.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That seems very unlikely given his last year and his QO.

I think the mid 8’s deal would have maxed out at 5 years which was a term Tkachuk was certainly interested in.

There was a rumor he may have been willing to sign mid 8’s for 8 years a year before he went RFA but then he broke out with 30+ and 70+ in addition to Matthews and Marner cashing in on ridiculous dollar amounts with less term