2023/24 No Hope Flames Rumours & Speculation Thread

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Flames aren't going to struggle to pay any of those younger players. None of them are gamebreakers, and most of them haven't even established themselves as solid support players or NHL players. If they begin to show gamebreaker ability/potential, we're still likely talking 2-3 years from now before there's any effort to make long-term commitments to them...and the Flames won't be facing a cap crunch at that point.

What have they done up to now to suggest that will be true?

If they haven't established themselves as gamebreakers, that's the time you can lock them up for cheap money. Waiting leads to having to pay them tons of money. It's what Treliving did with Lindholm and Hanifin; unfortunately we couldn't take advantage of those years that we had them as top line/top pairing for $4.xx MM. Duehr deal was another good AAV, should have doubled the term. The player is the perfect age and style of play for the 4th line, let them say no to 4 years x $950k-1MM.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by butterfly

What have they done up to now to suggest that will be true?

If they haven't established themselves as gamebreakers, that's the time you can lock them up for cheap money. Waiting leads to having to pay them tons of money. It's what Treliving did with Lindholm and Hanifin; unfortunately we couldn't take advantage of those years that we had them as top line/top pairing for $4.xx MM. Duehr deal was another good AAV, should have doubled the term. The player is the perfect age and style of play for the 4th line, let them say no to 4 years x $950k-1MM.

So if you're looking to spend whatever it takes to get rid of Huberdeau and Kadri, then you're banking on building your team around Pelletier and Coronato, and Zary? You're spending massive amounts of 1st round picks to move on from Huby and Kadri, so you've spent your most valuable asset (1st round picks) to acquire cap space...which you don't have internally developed players that are worth investing all of that cap space into.

This team needs its 1st round draft picks a hell of a lot more than they need cap space.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

So if you're looking to spend whatever it takes to get rid of Huberdeau and Kadri, then you're banking on building your team around Pelletier and Coronato, and Zary? You're spending massive amounts of 1st round picks to move on from Huby and Kadri, so you've spent your most valuable asset (1st round picks) to acquire cap space...which you don't have internally developed players that are worth investing all of that cap space into.

This team needs its 1st round draft picks a hell of a lot more than they need cap space.

I didn't argue to get rid of Huberdeau and Kadri. They're sunk costs at this point and I'd keep both of them unless someone would actually take them for free. So we definitely agree on that.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Huberdeau would light it up and we would be bumping the trade thread every day

Watching the same people calling for a rebuild/an end to signing 30+ players bump the Toffoli thread to complain about how good he is and how the Flames screwed up has been a real treat.

[Enoch Root]

Exactly

[GullFoss]

Was looking at Timo Mier and noticed Jack Hughes has gotten a goal or assist on 70% of devils goals this season. That is mind blowing

At 17 points, he's producing at the same rate as the entire flames roster!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Was looking at Timo Mier and noticed Jack Hughes has gotten a goal or assist on 70% of devils goals this season. That is mind blowing

At 17 points, he's producing at the same rate as the entire flames roster!

He's really, really good. Devils are set for a decade with him and Hischier as their top 6 centers.

[CroCop]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He's really, really good. Devils are set for a decade with him and Hischier as their top 6 centers.

Both were acquired via 1st overall pick. This is something we should be trying to achieve within the next 5 years or so. Scorched earth to cleanse the mess Brad left behind. Kadri and Huberdeau contracts would have value during this time too as they would be necessary to keep us up to the cap floor.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Watching the same people calling for a rebuild/an end to signing 30+ players bump the Toffoli thread to complain about how good he is and how the Flames screwed up has been a real treat.

Well targeting a 25 year old 4th liner over a year removed from his only decent season and paying him $3.1M likely isn’t sitting well with fans.

Can one not want a rebuild and also be disappointed in the return our GM got in a trade where the only rebuilding piece is a mid round pick?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He's really, really good. Devils are set for a decade with him and Hischier as their top 6 centers.

Absolute dream scenario for the Devils with Hughes. I ripped them for the contract when signed but I don’t follow the Devils. Clearly it was a genius move and easily the best deal in the league right now

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Absolute dream scenario for the Devils with Hughes. I ripped them for the contract when signed but I don’t follow the Devils. Clearly it was a genius move and easily the best deal in the league right now

Yes, that deal with Jack Hughes is like the one with Draisaitl. Remember that they weren't "gamebreakers" at the time.

A perfect time to offer a max term deal to a top draft pick.

[Tbull8]

I think this team started to go down when Bennett requested a trade. Maybe he wasn’t the biggest piece at the time but a pure heart and soul guy who would fight anyone that went after his teammates. Highest pick in history that was wasting away on the fourth line under gulutzan and Ward. Seemed to be very close with Johnny and Tkachuk. Leaves for Florida and then was 100% a factor in Tkachuk wanting to go there. This team should’ve built around Tkachuk Johnny Bennett and Rasmus. A young skilled core and then compliment them. Instead they ship out Bennett and lose out on securing a long term contract with tkachuk to hold onto and play veterans that were on the decline

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well targeting a 25 year old 4th liner over a year removed from his only decent season and paying him $3.1M likely isn’t sitting well with fans.

Can one not want a rebuild and also be disappointed in the return our GM got in a trade where the only rebuilding piece is a mid round pick?

lol he only has a few seasons

Go look what Taylor Hall returned for Boston...wasn't much of a market

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I think this team started to go down when Bennett requested a trade. Maybe he wasn’t the biggest piece at the time but a pure heart and soul guy who would fight anyone that went after his teammates. Highest pick in history that was wasting away on the fourth line under gulutzan and Ward. Seemed to be very close with Johnny and Tkachuk. Leaves for Florida and then was 100% a factor in Tkachuk wanting to go there. This team should’ve built around Tkachuk Johnny Bennett and Rasmus. A young skilled core and then compliment them. Instead they ship out Bennett and lose out on securing a long term contract with tkachuk to hold onto and play veterans that were on the decline

That's a big stretch with Tkachuk...he didn't like the fan and media attention in Canada. Not to mention the weather.

Tkachuk didn't leave because of Bennett, Florida wasn't the only team on his list.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I think this team started to go down when Bennett requested a trade. Maybe he wasn’t the biggest piece at the time but a pure heart and soul guy who would fight anyone that went after his teammates. Highest pick in history that was wasting away on the fourth line under gulutzan and Ward. Seemed to be very close with Johnny and Tkachuk. Leaves for Florida and then was 100% a factor in Tkachuk wanting to go there. This team should’ve built around Tkachuk Johnny Bennett and Rasmus. A young skilled core and then compliment them. Instead they ship out Bennett and lose out on securing a long term contract with tkachuk to hold onto and play veterans that were on the decline

Yeah that's not true at all. Tkachuk had a list of 4-5 teams he was willing to go to. Believe the teams were Tampa, Carolina, Dallas, St Louis and Florida. Basically contenders and his hometown team.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by camm13

Yeah that's not true at all. Tkachuk had a list of 4-5 teams he was willing to go to. Believe the teams were Tampa, Carolina, Dallas, St Louis and Florida. Basically contenders and his hometown team.

Didn’t say it was the only reason. But it sure doesn’t hurt having one of your best friends talking about how much better it is down there. I agree that there were lots of teams in the mix but it would be a factor for everyone

[dino7c]

nah, bad take

Tkachuk didn't like Canada...he said as much

[saillias]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Watching the same people calling for a rebuild/an end to signing 30+ players bump the Toffoli thread to complain about how good he is and how the Flames screwed up has been a real treat.

Those two positions are not at odds. The Flames should simply have held on to the player until the trade deadline. Leading scorer on the team, is an impending UFA -> sell in July? At no point did that ever make sense or look good to me

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by saillias

Those two positions are not at odds. The Flames should simply have held on to the player until the trade deadline. Leading scorer on the team, is an impending UFA -> sell in July? At no point did that ever make sense or look good to me

He requested a trade when they didn't give him a long term contract
you want another player here pouting? not to mention injury risks

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by dino7c

nah, bad take

Tkachuk didn't like Canada...he said as much

Both can be true. But alright