Israel declares war on Hamas

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by blankall

No significant amounts of Zionist aligned themselves with the Nazis. There was a meeting between Zionists leaders and Nazis, where the Zionists asked the Nazis to allow the Jews to move to Mandatory Palestine.

The Jews of mandatory Palestine fought for the British against the allied powers in the Jewish Brigades.

The Mufti of Jerusalem, did, in fact, ally himself with Hitler.

Also Reza Shah IIRC.

[gvitaly]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713922887856398597

Hamas steals 24,000L(this number is from an Israeli source) of fuel, and lots of medical equipment from UNRWA. It seems UNWRA first mentions the theft then deletes the tweets.

[Nage Waza]

Comparing Jews to nazis is anit-Semitism.

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com...n-antisemitism

combustiblefuel has completely jumped the shark and should not be using this website to spread such garbage. The above link is what Canada defines as anti-Semitism.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by _q_

so wait, did the palestinians exist before 1948 or are they a made up people? Hitler was a half decent guy until he met the blood thirsty palestinians, right? You're starting to sound like netanyahu.

A good part of the zionist movement aligned themselves with the nazis as well. It's politics. Countries align themselves with other countries for many reasons. Not all of it is about jew hate.

You're being played by your antisemitic overlords buddy.

The Palestinians exist before 1948, but not as the group of people referred to as Palestinians today. The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine. Here's the former Israeli PM Golda Meir addressing being a Palestinian.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713626430033019242

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Comparing Jews to nazis is anit-Semitism.

https://www.holocaustremembrance.com...n-antisemitism

combustiblefuel has completely jumped the shark and should not be using this website to spread such garbage. The above link is what Canada defines as anti-Semitism.

Interesting, I see in the list of examples they give I can nod along to all of them, but this one seems odd:


"Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations."


I'm not really sure how pointing out someone's priorities like that is antisemitic.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Prof Yanis Varoufakis put together a list of warcrimes that Israel has publicly committed in the last week, pretty extensive with full citations.

https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2023/...-october-2023/

Oh and not a warcrime, but definitely fascist:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713583549025304998'

Pretty brutal stuff in this post that the fingers-in-their-ears crowd has conveniently glossed over.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

No significant amounts of Zionist aligned themselves with the Nazis. There was a meeting between Zionists leaders and Nazis, where the Zionists asked the Nazis to allow the Jews to move to Mandatory Palestine.

The Jews of mandatory Palestine fought for the British against the allied powers in the Jewish Brigades.

The Mufti of Jerusalem, did, in fact, ally himself with Hitler.

Well, it was more than “a meeting.” The largest Zionist group in Germany negotiated the emigration of thousands of German Jews, which was a good thing, but came with it the consequences of breaking the anti-Nazi boycott, expediting the recovery of the German economy, and legitimizing Nazi Germany internationally. It was highly beneficial to the Nazis. How many Jews it saved vs how much it aided in Nazi Germany’s ability to proceed with the Holocaust is probably impossible to measure, but there is a reason why Jews across the entire world were opposed to the collaboration and why it’s still controversial today, and that isn’t because they held “a meeting.” Eliezer Livneh, who was involved with the Haavara Agreement, admitted the goal of it was never to save Jews, but to create a Jewish state in Palestine, using the German’s own goal of removing Jews from Germany as the path forward.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Prof Yanis Varoufakis put together a list of warcrimes that Israel has publicly committed in the last week, pretty extensive with full citations.

https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2023/...-october-2023/

Oh and not a warcrime, but definitely fascist:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1713583549025304998'

It's very weak. Buying rifles for settlers somehow counts as genocide now. Everything else he brings up comes down to blockade and bombing. So, according to him, every blockade and bombing is genocide. I guess, when Ukraine bombs Russian city, it's genocide too.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It's very weak. Buying rifles for settlers somehow counts as genocide now. Everything else he brings up comes down to blockade and bombing. So, according to him, every blockade and bombing is genocide. I guess, when Ukraine bombs Russian city, it's genocide too.

My favourite is the psychological effects of bombing are considered "torture".
Every single act of every war is a war crime based on that article.

Let's see if the disinformation police call this one out or let it slide since it's their type of disinformation.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yeah, one was white on white hate.

The other is white on brown hate.

Huge moral difference.

Israelis and Palestinians are fairly close genetically. Definitely not different races. I never considered Palestinians as people of different race.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It's very weak. Buying rifles for settlers somehow counts as genocide now. Everything else he brings up comes down to blockade and bombing. So, according to him, every blockade and bombing is genocide. I guess, when Ukraine bombs Russian city, it's genocide too.

Agreed. I read the list, and it quickly became apparent it's basically just the same thing as usual from the anti-Israel side of the debate - if you agree that Israel destroying civilian infrastructure in order to get the militants who are hiding there is a war crime, then their entire modus operandi is to commit war crimes. But if you accept that premise and agree with him about that list, there is no realistic method of counter-attack available to Israel that wouldn't result in war crimes.

At this point the continued conversation in the thread serves no purpose, because everyone is just preaching to their respective choirs and none of the positions anyone is taking are remotely palatable to anyone who doesn't already agree with them.

[Doctorfever]

Been following along on this thread. Lots of really good information here.
I think it’s safe to say that most would agree that this is not a Palestine vs Jews conflict , but rather an Israel vs Humas conflict.

I also think Hamas needs to be eliminated. I don’t blame Israel for coming into Gaza to try and eliminate Hamas. The many buildings that are being destroyed and will be destroyed is happening because Hamas hides their weapons in these buildings, amongst the civilians. The civilian casualties on Israel are a tragedy, the civilian casualties in Palestine are equally tragic. Unfortunately we will see many more casualties in Palestine, and I agree with some posters here saying those casualties are mostly because of how Hamas uses civilians as human shields.

I don’t think we can blame Israel for trying to eliminate Hamas, but certainly their methods can be critiqued. And, like everyone here, I am hopeful they can minimize civilian casualties while trying to eliminate Hamas.

Politically, I am conservative, but I do agree with Justin Trudeau’s statements that Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas. (Although agreeing with JT feels strange. Lol).

[PsYcNeT]

The thing is, according to the articles put forth by the Hague, these do in fact qualify. See Ratko's trials post-Bosnia.

We'll see how the trials will-out in the next 10 years.

"Political correctness run amok! You can't even blow up civilians without someone calling it a warcrime nowadays! The woke mind virus!"

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Agreed. I read the list, and it quickly became apparent it's basically just the same thing as usual from the anti-Israel side of the debate - if you agree that Israel destroying civilian infrastructure in order to get the militants who are hiding there is a war crime, then their entire modus operandi is to commit war crimes. But if you accept that premise and agree with him about that list, there is no realistic method of counter-attack available to Israel that wouldn't result in war crimes.

At this point the continued conversation in the thread serves no purpose, because everyone is just preaching to their respective choirs and none of the positions anyone is taking are remotely palatable to anyone who doesn't already agree with them.

To me, war crimes would be something done beyond the minimum needed to achieve your goal in defense. Noisy explosions, while traumatic, are a necessity in those goals. Torturing before killing, purposefully killing non-threatening non-combatants...those sorts of thing are clear.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

My favourite is the psychological effects of bombing are considered "torture".
Every single act of every war is a war crime based on that article.

Let's see if the disinformation police call this one out or let it slide since it's their type of disinformation.

There are a few on the list that are a stretch at best, and he uses some references that have clear bias, but he’s accurately identified war crimes that have occurred as well.

The article definitely does not suggest every single act of every war is a war crime, so that’s nonsense, but I don’t see the article as particularly damming or even telling, because outside of the war crimes we are already well aware of, it’s definitely reaching to add a few more tenuous interpretations to the list.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The thing is, according to the articles put forth by the Hague, these do in fact qualify. See Ratko's trials post-Bosnia.

We'll see how the trials will-out in the next 10 years.

"Political correctness run amok! You can't even blow up civilians without someone calling it a warcrime nowadays! The woke mind virus!"

How about releasing hostages? (taking hostages is a war crime by the way)

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Pointman

How about releasing hostages? (taking hostages is a war crime by the way)

I mean Hamas has already breached many war crimes as well, but no one here is defending Hamas. It's likely however they will all be too dead to be tried once this is all over.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Pointman

How about releasing hostages? (taking hostages is a war crime by the way)

If your angle is that Hamas also commits war crimes I don’t think you’re going to find anyone who disagrees that a terrorist organization is committing war crimes nor anyone that finds that a compelling excuse for anyone else to do it.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There are a few on the list that are a stretch at best, and he uses some references that have clear bias, but he’s accurately identified war crimes that have occurred as well.

The article definitely does not suggest every single act of every war is a war crime, so that’s nonsense, but I don’t see the article as particularly damming or even telling, because outside of the war crimes we are already well aware of, it’s definitely reaching to add a few more tenuous interpretations to the list.

It's not just war crimes. He calls it genocide. For this to hold true, he must posit that the reason why Israel is bombing Gaza has nothing to do with revenge for Oct 7, but instead is because Israel wants to destroy Palestinians. So, according to him, it's just random coincidence that the bombing is happening after the terror attack and the bombing has nothing to do with Hamas, but strictly with nationality of Gaza's citizens.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Well, no, you can definitely commit genocide as reprisal for an attack. The issue is whether those bombings are intentionally purposed to wipe out the Palestinians as a group because they are Palestinians, or whether their purpose is to kill those responsible for the attacks on Israel, and destroy or hinder the capability of those responsible to engage in further attacks.