Israel declares war on Hamas

[bluejays]

Maybe I’m oversimplifying things but I’ve never understood gatherings and political protests in Canada. It’s clear to most you left your former country for a better life in Canada. To come here and bring your politics over and expect the Canadian government to do things for your country or in this case where Palestinians are gathering in large groups applauding, is just odd to me. There is no such thing as acting like a Canadian but if you moved here it should say something about your ex country. So odd to cheer on stuff that’s clearly not right.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I don't know why people keep bringing up Egypt, as if what Egypt does make it right. And Israel currently has 2000 Palestinians in custody without charge.

It’s just that Israel isn’t the only humanitarian option that exists but people are acting like it is. Has Hamas made any attempt to negotiate and exchange people?
If not, then that doesn’t matter really. Israel has given a crack in the door to negotiate but Hamas has not engaged thus far

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Canada allows gay marriage, as do many US states

Israel is a religious state, surrounded by straight up fundamentalist religious states. As for as the region goes, they are doing pretty alright on the open/inclusive thing.

My original point was that they could be better if they didn't have religion as a key tenet of the existence of their state, and agreeing with a poster that ethnocratic states were not good things.

There are so many Muslims/Catholics/Jews living peacefully as neighbours in our neck of the woods, and that is a great thing.

If you grow up with people as your neighbour, vs. a faceless enemy across a wall, there's a lot more chance for empathy and understanding to develop between groups of people.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Maybe I’m oversimplifying things but I’ve never understood gatherings and political protests in Canada. It’s clear to most you left your former country for a better life in Canada. To come here and bring your politics over and expect the Canadian government to do things for your country or in this case where Palestinians are gathering in large groups applauding, is just odd to me. There is no such thing as acting like a Canadian but if you moved here it should say something about your ex country. So odd to cheer on stuff that’s clearly not right.

Its undesirable but as a nation of immigrants its going to be inevitable that the problems of their home countries come to our soil and people are still attached to their home countries, cultures, religions, and the families/politics/sects back home.

We've seen it all from the Sikh/Hindu Khalistan assassination in BC, to the Eritrean on Eritrean fights in multiple Canadian cities, to pro-Beijing protestors fighting Chinese groups demonstrating for democracy and against human rights abuses.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I don't know why people keep bringing up Egypt, as if what Egypt does make it right. And Israel currently has 2000 Palestinians in custody without charge.

We are likely going to see a cooperative effort between multiple nations to remove Hamas. Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and likely the gulf states and the Palestinian Authority are all currently meeting and coming up with the best way to remove Hamas from power.

No matter what the outcome, there's likely to be a humanitarian situation that require collusion of all of the surrounding states.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Its undesirable but as a nation of immigrants its going to be inevitable that the problems of their home countries come to our soil and people are still attached to their home countries, cultures, religions, and the families/politics/sects back home.

We've seen it all from the Sikh/Hindu Khalistan assassination in BC, to the Eritrean on Eritrean fights in multiple Canadian cities, to pro-Beijing protestors fighting Chinese groups demonstrating for democracy and against human rights abuses.

This is a huge problem with our immigration policy. It's been unfettered immigration without any check to see whether the people coming want to or will integrate into the country or not. Just need a simple criminal background check.

Ends up all of those non-integrating ethnic groups just import and continue all of their problems here. i.e. harassment based on caste systems, Sikh/Hindu, Israeli/Palestinian conflicts, etc. CSIS and security organizations have been warning about this for years and the Liberals have not listened.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It’s just that Israel isn’t the only humanitarian option that exists but people are acting like it is. Has Hamas made any attempt to negotiate and exchange people?
If not, then that doesn’t matter really. Israel has given a crack in the door to negotiate but Hamas has not engaged thus far

I don't know, maybe the focus should be the fact that Israel has thousands captive without charge for many years instead of whether or not any negotiations are taking place

[blankall]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

I don't know, maybe the focus should be the fact that Israel has thousands captive without charge for many years instead of whether or not any negotiations are taking place

Israel has a right to detain enemy combatants, which proved this week represent a serious threat to their population. Perhaps if those enemy combatants started wearing uniforms, as international clearly states they must, Israel would be able to identify who was and who wasn't a combatant.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Israel is a religious state, surrounded by straight up fundamentalist religious states. As for as the region goes, they are doing pretty alright on the open/inclusive thing.

My original point was that they could be better if they didn't have religion as a key tenet of the existence of their state, and agreeing with a poster that ethnocratic states were not good things.

There are so many Muslims/Catholics/Jews living peacefully as neighbours in our neck of the woods, and that is a great thing.

If you grow up with people as your neighbour, vs. a faceless enemy across a wall, there's a lot more chance for empathy and understanding to develop between groups of people.

My dad was born and grew up in a palestinian village in what is now Southern Israel during the brittish mandate. Actually not very far from where these clashes are happening today. He used to tell me of a Jewish village next to theirs. He had Jewish friends. The adults used to cooperate, selling produce to each other. Nobody gave a damn whether they were Jewish or Muslim. It never occurred to him that those people were ever to become his enemy.

I also understand that there might have been clashes and things weren't that rosey. I've heard that it was foreign influences purposefully trying to fan the flames for political reasons. I don't know who to believe honestly.

What I do know is that my dad was genuine.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

This is a huge problem with our immigration policy. It's been unfettered immigration without any check to see whether the people coming want to or will integrate into the country or not. Just need a simple criminal background check.

Ends up all of those non-integrating ethnic groups just import and continue all of their problems here. i.e. harassment based on caste systems, Sikh/Hindu, Israeli/Palestinian conflicts, etc. CSIS and security organizations have been warning about this for years and the Liberals have not listened.

I think a lot of these issues get buried as well because people don't want to bring it up because it will get labelled as "racism". As first generation immigrant children ourselves, we see and want to vocalise these problems just as much as anyone because we've grown up seeing it in our own communities.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by _Q_

My dad was born and grew up in a palestinian village in what is now Southern Israel during the brittish mandate. Actually not very far from where these clashes are happening today. He used to tell me of a Jewish village next to theirs. He had Jewish friends. The adults used to cooperate, selling produce to each other. Nobody gave a damn whether they were Jewish or Muslim. It never occurred to him that those people were ever to become his enemy.

I also understand that there might have been clashes and things weren't that rosey. I've heard that it was foreign influences purposefully trying to fan the flames for political reasons. I don't know who to believe honestly.

What I do know is that my dad was genuine.

Meanwhile in an parallel universe:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SipsTea/com...eb2x&context=3

In all seriousness, I have always heard these stories. That communities just got along, kids played together. People would see their neighbors as humans and not dehumanized enemies of another religion. It's heartbreaking. There was even a DNA study recently that showed that Israelis and Palestinians were more closely linked than other groups in the region.

[_Q_]

Palestinian father and son murdered by Israeli terrorists while attending a funeral.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/2-pale...-in-west-bank/

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Palestinian father and son murdered by Israeli terrorists while attending a funeral.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/2-pale...-in-west-bank/

Targeting them at a funeral is next level gross.

[Playfair]

War is ugly and evil. Nobody wins in a war. When you look at Russia and Ukraine, they are family. If Russia didn't enter Ukraine, all of this would be avoided. Forgetting political reasons and differences of course, all I'm saying is I'd their was respect on both sides there would be no war, honour of people rather than politics.

I am pro Ukraine because they were not the aggressor. Are they perfect and innocent? No. They sin like the rest of us. I am pro Israel biblically speaking, however, they are not blameless I'm the things they have done over the years. I'm heartbroken for this lost in Israel, and those innocent people dying in Gaza. It is so much bigger than the poor innocent people being killed on both sides.

We may not agree on reasons for conflict, who did what, etc. But, if only it were possible, it would be better to put political leaders and factions in a room andet them battle it out leaving innocents alone.

Human nature is naturally greedy and only looks after self. It is so sad.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Palestinian father and son murdered by Israeli terrorists while attending a funeral.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/2-pale...-in-west-bank/

Hard to hope there will be a full proper investigation and arrests. Everyone is occupied elsewhere. That "outpost" is for sure one that can and should be torn down. A few zealots from that outpost are already in prison.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by blankall

Israel has a right to detain enemy combatants, which proved this week represent a serious threat to their population. Perhaps if those enemy combatants started wearing uniforms, as international clearly states they must, Israel would be able to identify who was and who wasn't a combatant.

I believe that Israel is closely mirroring the definition and laws surrounding the term enemy combatants. That was defined under the Bush Jr Administration.


Which means that because Hamas falls more under a terrorist organization then a definable nation state military. Hamas is not protected under the Geneva Convention.



You can detain and hold a suspect with no requirements of charges or even a trial.

Isreal's will over rides international law in terms of the treatment of these captives.



In the US after 9/11 there were two court challenges that allowed prisoners to challenge their confinement which lead to the tribunal system I don't think any similar challenge has happened in Israel.


Basically because Hamas is not protected under the laws and not ruled as subject to any kind of rules of military conduct. Israel can lock them up indefinitely or at least until their status is defined. If they capture Hamas members in the streets in civilian clothes, they can probably just shoot them if they want or dissapear them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by _Q_

My dad was born and grew up in a palestinian village in what is now Southern Israel during the brittish mandate. Actually not very far from where these clashes are happening today. He used to tell me of a Jewish village next to theirs. He had Jewish friends. The adults used to cooperate, selling produce to each other. Nobody gave a damn whether they were Jewish or Muslim. It never occurred to him that those people were ever to become his enemy.

I also understand that there might have been clashes and things weren't that rosey. I've heard that it was foreign influences purposefully trying to fan the flames for political reasons. I don't know who to believe honestly.

What I do know is that my dad was genuine.

Its the one things that's crazy to me, both sides come from trading and commerce cultures, you'd think they could find even ground based around trade.

[Red Slinger]

For Pepsi, Fuzz, PsycNet and others I would ask:

If you were in charge of Israel on Oct.8 what would you do?

[activeStick]

You didn't ask me, but I wouldn't cut off food and clean water to everyone in the region, to start, given the majority are not Hamas.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by activeStick

You didn't ask me, but I wouldn't cut off food and clean water to everyone in the region, to start, given the majority are not Hamas.

Okay. What WOULD you do?