Israel declares war on Hamas

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Jews accepted the 1948 partition plan to live side by side with the Arabs. Which side didn’t? Which side gave citizenship to the other group to those who stayed within their borders?

There was a mass explosion of Jews. The land is the homeland of the Jewish people and religion. I’m not going to argue with you further. We know you wish it was the 23rd Arab state with maybe a few Jews the Palestinians would allow to stay. Sorry the Arabs had to give up this sliver of land while controlling the rest of the middle east, including all of its oil reserves.

Oh yes, Brittain's generous offer to give 52% of the land to new immigrants that constituted less than 15% of the population and turn jerusalem into an international city.

So you expected the locals to just rubber stamp their colonization instead of fighting it?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Then they should take it to the ground to reduce civilian casualties, or just glass it.

Seems like indiscriminately bombing stuff is a half-measure

There's only one group wiping out entire towns of people here.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Oh yes, Brittain's generous offer to give 52% of the land to new immigrants that constituted less than 15% of the population and turn jerusalem into an international city.

So you expected the locals to just rubber stamp their colonization instead of fighting it?

Most of the land the Jews got was a wasteland with much of it legally purchased from the Ottomans. Jerusalem is the holiest city in Judaism and is integral to Jewish culture and religion. Unlike Islam, in Judaism we pray towards Jerusalem and not to Mecca. It’s only a holy site because us, the Jews, made it a holy site. AND even with that being said we still respect Islam and allowed Palestinians to control Al-Aqsa even though it sits directly on the most holiest religious site for Jews. Would the Palestinians and arabs be so kind?

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yeah but see, Israel builds communities there because Judea and Samaria is the indigenous homeland of the jews. So the Palestinians just need to quietly file out and make room for the master race. After all Moses clearly brokered that deal with the creator.

Haven't you heard, "If only the Palestinians would lay down their arms there would be peace".

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Most of the land the Jews got was a wasteland with much of it legally purchased from the Ottomans. Jerusalem is the holiest city in Judaism and is integral to Jewish culture and religion. Unlike Islam in Judaism we pray towards Jerusalem and not to Mecca. It’s only a holy site because us, the Jews, made it a holy site.

Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Nazareth, etc. all existed well before the establishment of israel. They were populated mostly by palestinians Muslims and Christians with small Jewish minorities. There were farming communities throughout the entire country well before Israel existed. A total of 400 arab towns and villages were ethnically cleansed to create israel.

That is most definitely not a "wasteland" as you state.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

"If only the Palestinians would lay down their arms there would be peace".

Yes lay down their arms.

Well you know, so David from Ohio can comfortably "return" to Judea and Samaria.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Most of the land the Jews got was a wasteland with much of it legally purchased from the Ottomans. Jerusalem is the holiest city in Judaism and is integral to Jewish culture and religion. Unlike Islam, in Judaism we pray towards Jerusalem and not to Mecca. It’s only a holy site because us, the Jews, made it a holy site. AND even with that being said we still respect Islam and allowed Palestinians to control Al-Aqsa even though it sits directly on the most holiest religious site for Jews. Would the Palestinians and arabs be so kind?

How do you feel about occupying the holy land of the Indigenous peoples of Vancouver Island?

[Vedder]

I’m legitimately stunned that anyone who has seen the footage from last weekend can attempt to draw a moral equivalence between the terrorists, who target innocent women and children, and then hide behind more innocent women and children, and the people seeking rightful retribution for those heinous crimes.

[PsYcNeT]

New Gideon Levy op-ed

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023...b-737c1b7a0000

Haaretz still being a voice of reason

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Nazareth, etc. all existed well before the establishment of israel. They were populated mostly by palestinians Muslims and Christians with small Jewish minorities. There were farming communities throughout the entire country well before Israel existed. A total of 400 arab towns and villages were ethnically cleansed to create israel.

That is most definitely not a "wasteland" as you state.

The Palestinians were given the more fertile and valuable land and still decided to wage war after the partition.

What about the Jewish towns and communities that were destroyed after the creation of Israel throughout the Arab world?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yes lay down their arms.

Well you know, so David from Ohio can comfortably "return" to Judea and Samaria.

You don’t feel that Jews are entitled to a state in their historical homeland. At least you can admit it. And that ladies and gents is why there never will be peace.

But 22 Arab ethno religious states are good with you! Maybe don’t lose every war you wage.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, Nazareth, etc. all existed well before the establishment of israel. They were populated mostly by palestinians Muslims and Christians with small Jewish minorities. There were farming communities throughout the entire country well before Israel existed. A total of 400 arab towns and villages were ethnically cleansed to create israel.

That is most definitely not a "wasteland" as you state.

Do you realize, that Arabs are not indigenous population of Palestine, but rather conquered it from Byzantine (Eastern Roman Empire) in 600s AD? You constantly complain about Jews taking the land forcibly from Arabs, but never talk about the way Arabs got it at the first place:

https://history-maps.com/story/Musli...-of-the-Levant

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Palestine

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Most of the land the Jews got was a wasteland with much of it legally purchased from the Ottomans. Jerusalem is the holiest city in Judaism and is integral to Jewish culture and religion. Unlike Islam, in Judaism we pray towards Jerusalem and not to Mecca. It’s only a holy site because us, the Jews, made it a holy site. AND even with that being said we still respect Islam and allowed Palestinians to control Al-Aqsa even though it sits directly on the most holiest religious site for Jews. Would the Palestinians and arabs be so kind?

I know this is probably tough for someone to understand who's religion is so intertwined with their identity, but this really is part of the issue. Without the overarching religious narrative, it's just a patch of land in a desert that people used to live in. The history of humanity has shown no one is entitled to anything anyone had 2000 years ago(as it should be). So without the religious angle, had Israel not been created, Jewish people would have probably preferred to be anywhere but there.


Imagine asking for a homeland, and the world powers pointing you to an insignificant patch of sand in the Ghobi desert? Ya, thanks, but no thanks. It is the religious significance that draws them there.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The Palestinians were given the more fertile and valuable land and still decided to wage war after the partition.

What about the Jewish towns and communities that were destroyed after the creation of Israel throughout the Arab world?

Like I said, there was never a reason to create an ethnostate exclusive to one master race. The arabs actually offered the creation of a binational state, which was promptly refused by the zionists.

The arabs were trying to find a peaceful way to integrate the Jewish community into the arab world. Yet the zionists had maximalist ideas to colonize the entire land. As for the Jewish refugees. That was only a result of the creation of Israel. Those refugees would not have existed without the partition of 48.

The creation of Israel in itself was an act of war, not the retaliation that followed.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Do you realize, that Arabs are not indigenous population of Palestine, but rather conquered it from Byzantine (Eastern Roman Empire) in 600s AD? You constantly complain about Jews taking the land forcibly from Arabs, but never talk about the way Arabs got it at the first place:

https://history-maps.com/story/Musli...-of-the-Levant

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Palestine

Do you also realize that palestinians aren't from saudi arabia?

To think all 300 million arabs from morocco to Oman all originated from a couple of tribes in Medina.

This is as silly as thinking all Hispanic people originated from Spain, or the quebecois homeland is paris.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Do you think Israel would bomb a building with confirmed Hamas equipment/militants in it, if it was also filled with Israeli civilians?

(The answer is no, because Likud believes Palestinians are subhuman so their civvies are fair targets)

The answer is obviously Yes. Right now Israel is bombing buildings with confirmed Israel civilians, including children, being held hostages. For all we know, they may well be on the houses that are being bombed. Even if not, Israel is clearly ok with bombing Hamas even if it will result in death of hostages.

[activeStick]

Bernie's statement on the situation.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1712123827273019648

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Beninho

This isn’t a religious war for most Jews and Israelis. What the hell are you on about. This is our ethnic homeland, which we were expelled resulting in 2000 years of persecution. You may think this is a religious battle because you read up on this conflict once every few years when it is in the news, but to Jews this is about the survival of our people and always has been. We don’t convert, we are not competing with any religion for global domination. In an ideal world we would have loved to live side by side with peaceful neighbours but that has never been the case. Israel was born out of war because the Islamic world could not stand for a Jewish state. The Palestinians have had many opportunities for their own state even after waging wars but have continuously shot themselves in the foot.

Help me understand your position here. Answer some questions for me. Were you born in the Middle East? Have you traced your lineage all the way back to the Middle East? What provenance do you have to lay claim to anything? I suspect it is only the fact that you are a Jew and your upbringing has told you these stories, and these stories are based on what is taught in the Torah. Unless you were born there or can trace your lineage back to a very specific place, what right do you or anyone not born in that region have to make claim to that land?

Isn't it time to let go of this "ethnic homeland" angle as it was something that is over two millennia old? Look at how much strife this thinking has caused. The land in question is also the "ethnic homeland" of the Palestinians. It would seem both are in the right and both are in the wrong. Shouldn't modern ownership rights (actual documented ownership) matter here and let the rest go?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I know this is probably tough for someone to understand who's religion is so intertwined with their identity, but this really is part of the issue. Without the overarching religious narrative, it's just a patch of land in a desert that people used to live in. The history of humanity has shown no one is entitled to anything anyone had 2000 years ago(as it should be). So without the religious angle, had Israel not been created, Jewish people would have probably preferred to be anywhere but there.


Imagine asking for a homeland, and the world powers pointing you to an insignificant patch of sand in the Ghobi desert? Ya, thanks, but no thanks. It is the religious significance that draws them there.

It is probably hard for someone who is not part of an ethno-religious group to understand but our religion is directly tied to our ethnic identity hence why even after 2000 years the land of Israel remained the heart beat of our culture. The early Zionists were not religious in the slightest. Our ethnic identity is rooted to the levant, you can see it in DNA tests.

And with all that being said I still believe Palestinians are also entitled to the land but firmly hold the position that they had many opportunities after many wars waged to have their own state but wanted the terms as if they were the victors of war.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

There's only one group wiping out entire towns of people here.

Both groups have wiped out entire towns’ worth of civilians in the last week. This is hardly a statement worth making if you want to measure who is right.