Israel declares war on Hamas

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

to me It is also despicable to defend the horrific attack form Hamas this week, as it is to pretend that Isreal has not committed decades worth of violence against Palestinians.

This is a brutal decades long chain of events. As a 3rd party picking sides is just as muddy and bloody as choosing between croats and serbs. There is no easy explanation or solution to historical intergenerational violence.

I feel awful for people who are caught in the middle.

Yes and the whole conflict has been so asymmetric for so long, I can't say I'm surprised it's come to this. Very unfortunate all around.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

The blockade of Gaza which wasn't in place 20 some years ago it was designed to prevent the import of weapons or materials that help produce weapons to the Hamas. My memory could be off, but It started after rockets started being fired from Gaza to Israel.

Israel still allows building materials despite the fact that Hamas uses a lot of them to construct and upgrade its underground bunker city.

Here's a partial list of items prohibited from Gaza. This is from 2022, so well before this latest fighting.

https://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/Hid...trip060510.pdf

Good thing cardamom seeds are on that list. If hamas throw those fast enough, they can cause some serious damage.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

The Egypt thing has been answered multiple times, again, Egypt is run by a dictator and has a very poor human righrs record, why are they a model on what should be done?

And unless I missed it, who has defended what Hamas did at all?

That describes every country in the Middle East, the only departure from that is the year or two of anarchic chaos in the time frame between brutal dictators

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Here's a partial list of items prohibited from Gaza. This is from 2022, so well before this latest fighting.

https://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/Hid...trip060510.pdf

Good thing cardamom seeds are on that list. If hamas throw those fast enough, they can cause some serious damage.

You clearly have never smuggled drugs, I'm actually surprised coffee isnt banned but I guess Israel isnt concerned about masking the chemical signature of cocaine which is what coffee does, the spices hide the smell of plastic explosives

[Samonadreau]

I have been once again reminded that we are lucky to live where we do. The 1st world problems and 'normal' life, taxes and death that we have to deal with in our day to day is nothing like what so many elsewhere have to go through and its why I am so naive to just wonder why we can't all just be freinds.

The poor civilians on both sides of this conflict.

[TheIronMaiden]

In Gaza 900 people have been killed, with 4,250 wounded since Saturday, with no end in sight.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Here's a partial list of items prohibited from Gaza. This is from 2022, so well before this latest fighting.

https://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/Hid...trip060510.pdf

Good thing cardamom seeds are on that list. If hamas throw those fast enough, they can cause some serious damage.

Nice spin on things. I didn't know that the Gaza economy could be solved with the import of Cardamom. I don't know how spices are used or could be used for smuggling other things.

The main materials there are things that can be used in the production of weapons, cement, and wood for construction(underground tunnels).

The blockade has started to prevent the armament of the Hamas. It didn't do any good, because there are tunnels in the Egyptian border, but that was the attempt.

[LanceUppercut]

For those pro-palestine people, may I ask what an appropriate Israeli response should/would be to the events that transpired?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

In Gaza 900 people have been killed, with 4,250 wounded since Saturday, with no end in sight.

I feel sorry for the Palestinian civilians that got killed and wounded just as much as the Israeli ones. All this will bring more casualties on both sides, more bitterness and hatred. Meanwhile the people responsible will get out of it without a scratch.

I don't have any empathy for anyone that is working for the Hamas, or their families.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Israeli logic dude. None of it makes sense.

I swear, a few decades down the road, Israeli propaganda will become a case study on how to induce personality disorders on an entire population.

You and WCW are like flat earthers in here. It really is sad. For years you post misinformation that is damaging for Palestinians, yet you are thinking it helps. You ignore everyone that provided helpful information and you just paste the same nonsense again. After the Palestinian 'government' in Gaza invaded Israel and brutally murdered so many people, you want the border opened into Israel? Israel spent so much time and money implementing a program to limit Hamas' access to weapons, and you state after the recent attack that limiting Palestinians access to weapons is not justified? How many times did you post over the last 15 years, the entire time Gaza was independent, that Hamas should stop firing rockets at Israel?

The usual suspects in here are actually rather quiet, but several have posted that they are completely disgusted with what happened.

Whatever your sources are, whatever you think is going on, time for you to reflect. Want to talk peace or what might work to help the region? Go for it. I am game.

I wish peace in the region, what is it you want? I think that Palestinian leadership need to use this moment to say enough is enough, tell Iran to back off, come to the table and negotiate peace with Israel and give up Hamas. If Israel feels secure in that, they will make borders work. The trouble now is the Israeli population has been spooked, the savagery is emotionally overwhelming to them - Palestinians must somehow overcome that, and it must be fast and strong.

Right now, as a jew who feels for both sides (including Gaza), while I feel support from people, I am seeing way too many people supporting what Hamas did.

Think about it. Time to understand how Israel was created, how we got to today.

[Manhattanboy]

We know exactly what they want. From the River to the Sea. The chanting at their rally in support of Hamas yesterday.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

For those pro-palestine people, may I ask what an appropriate Israeli response should/would be to the events that transpired?

Any answer to this question is 80 years to late. Slaughter has begot slaughter which will in turn inspire more slaughter.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

For those pro-palestine people, may I ask what an appropriate Israeli response should/would be to the events that transpired?

They've already said.

Originally Posted by _Q_

I'll tell you what. How about Israel lays down their arms instead?

Originally Posted by _Q_

Do you know what Israel could do to show the Palestinians they only want peace? Open up their borders to palestinian civilians, while they fight hamas in Gaza. Provide shelter, medical aid and food. Hell, even if they opened up the border to women, children and the elderly and let them temporarily resettle in the West Bank, it would go a long way.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I feel sorry for the Palestinian civilians that got killed and wounded just as much as the Israeli ones. All this will bring more casualties on both sides, more bitterness and hatred. Meanwhile the people responsible will get out of it without a scratch.

I don't have any empathy for anyone that is working for the Hamas, or their families.

Yeah, you never want to see it no matter who the people are. I don't trust Hamas or any of the local authorities to give us the real numbers though when it comes to militants killed and civilians killed. I am pretty sure they just call them all civilians.

They really need to stop letting the militants mingle in the general population and launch attacks from residential buildings though. And if there is no safe place from which to launch rockets without sacrificing your own civilians, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Anyway, they should be trying to evacuate children and vulnerable people as far back from the areas rockets are being launched from. Most of Israel's strikes have been in the north part of Gaza (Jabalia and Ash-Shati). Gazan authorities had to have known that Israel would respond with strikes in those areas and should be doing everything they can to evacuate the children at the very least. It's like they prefer the photo ops over actually protecting people.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

You and WCW are like flat earthers in here. It really is sad. For years you post misinformation that is damaging for Palestinians, yet you are thinking it helps. You ignore everyone that provided helpful information and you just paste the same nonsense again. After the Palestinian 'government' in Gaza invaded Israel and brutally murdered so many people, you want the border opened into Israel? Israel spent so much time and money implementing a program to limit Hamas' access to weapons, and you state after the recent attack that limiting Palestinians access to weapons is not justified? How many times did you post over the last 15 years, the entire time Gaza was independent, that Hamas should stop firing rockets at Israel?

The usual suspects in here are actually rather quiet, but several have posted that they are completely disgusted with what happened.

Whatever your sources are, whatever you think is going on, time for you to reflect. Want to talk peace or what might work to help the region? Go for it. I am game.

I wish peace in the region, what is it you want? I think that Palestinian leadership need to use this moment to say enough is enough, tell Iran to back off, come to the table and negotiate peace with Israel and give up Hamas. If Israel feels secure in that, they will make borders work. The trouble now is the Israeli population has been spooked, the savagery is emotionally overwhelming to them - Palestinians must somehow overcome that, and it must be fast and strong.

Right now, as a jew who feels for both sides (including Gaza), while I feel support from people, I am seeing way too many people supporting what Hamas did.

Think about it. Time to understand how Israel was created, how we got to today.

What would peace look like?

A 2 state solution. No, not the one where palestinians take the West Bank and Gaza and Israel retreats to 67 borders. No. One state for anyone that's tired of this crap and wants to live in peace with their neighbour and another state for the likes of Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich, along with Hamas and PIJ. They can all have each other..... but far away from the peace loving folks in Israel/palestine.

Maybe after all this is said and done the UN can partition the UK and turn london onto an international city. Send the crazies to the new nation in Europe and let the British deal with the mess they created.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

For those pro-palestine people, may I ask what an appropriate Israeli response should/would be to the events that transpired?

In the end, its not going to matter. The real power movers and leaders in Hamas likely don't even live in Gaza, They are rich and powerful and far away from any harm.

Israel can kill every single member of Hamas living in Gaza tomorrow, and without taking out the leadership they will act like a malignant cancer cell and rebuild the organization.

[Cube Inmate]

I think Hamas would willingly sacrifice every person in Gaza if that's what it would take to destroy Israel. That's the mindset of a Jim Jones, David Koresh, or Charles Manson.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

In the end, its not going to matter. The real power movers and leaders in Hamas likely don't even live in Gaza, They are rich and powerful and far away from any harm.

Israel can kill every single member of Hamas living in Gaza tomorrow, and without taking out the leadership they will act like a malignant cancer cell and rebuild the organization.

I think that every terrorist with blood on his hands that Israel captures should either be executed, or surgically turned into a quadriplegic and released back into Gaza. Let the people in Gaza take care of them. That should be applied retroactively to all the terrorists currently imprisoned in Israel.

The leadership of Hamas should be added to a list much like the people in charge of the Munich massacre. Let the Mossad take care of them no matter which places they're hiding in.

[monkeyman]

All Hamas wants is for Israel to put down their weapons and let Hamas slaughter each and every one of them, men, women, children and babies. Why is Israel being so difficult about this if they truly want peace?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Here's a partial list of items prohibited from Gaza. This is from 2022, so well before this latest fighting.

https://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/Hid...trip060510.pdf

Good thing cardamom seeds are on that list. If hamas throw those fast enough, they can cause some serious damage.

This list is from 13+ years ago and was compiled from "sources" claimed to be trades people on what they were allowed to import or not. I don't see any hard evidence. I don't have sides here but I can't take this at face value. Seeds, fishing nets, etc. do all sound very strange and nonsensical unless the claim is to prevent agriculture and industry to develop.