Israel declares war on Hamas - Page 23 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

afc wimbledon · 10-09-2023, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Q_

Well you see, this kind of works both ways.

In the 60s and 70s palestinian society was fairly secular.

Oh yes, but here's the point, it's over Israel won and there is no going back, every attack just loses Palestine more, Gaza was exactly what the Muslims wanted, their own country, and now they have likely lost that and for what? 2 days of rape and murder, there is no future that sees Palestine get more land back, they only have land to lose, there is nothing that changes that, does it suck? yes, must suck to live on a res in poverty and watch rich white folk drive by in Teslas, life aint fair

Harry Lime · 10-09-2023, 05:19 PM

In any conflict, people are going to set limits to what actions are deplorable enough that there is no walking it back. Personally I have a line, where if you kidnap and rape women and children to death, you are villains and I have a lot of leeway on a heavy-handed response.

Both Russia and Palestine have crossed that line and I'm pretty lenient in judging any response. Any government that pays their soldiers in access to rape is deplorable.

blankall · 10-09-2023, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

So you agree that archeological arguments for rightful land ownership are hypocritical?

Archeological arguments are genuine arguments.

Archeological evidence about land ownership will always create a tie between a people and that land. It's literal evidence of history in that land.

PsYcNeT · 10-09-2023, 05:28 PM

Rape has been mentioned a lot in this thread; does anyone have a source?

The only one I've seen was in the NYT but they walked it back since it was only a single anonymous source.

blankall · 10-09-2023, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Rape has been mentioned a lot in this thread; does anyone have a source?

The only one I've seen was in the NYT but they walked it back since it was only a single anonymous source.

There's photos and videos of women stripped naked. I haven't seen anything confirming rape. That being said, I've been largely avoiding a lot of the nastier videos circulating.

Azure · 10-09-2023, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Many human rights/aid organizations have said Israel routinely targets civilians, including hospital staff and journalists. Just today Israel announced that they are cutting off food and water to Gaza, sounds like deliberate targetting to me

Why doesn't Egypt allow Palestinians to cross their shared border?

PsYcNeT · 10-09-2023, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

There's photos and videos of women stripped naked. I haven't seen anything confirming rape. That being said, I've been largely avoiding a lot of the nastier videos circulating.

So it's extrapolation?

Azure · 10-09-2023, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

https://twitter.com/user/status/1711451405368627510

I think that's a pretty easy no for Israel unless the terms of the ceasefire is that every single Hamas fighter and leader including the senior leadership drops their weapons and marches out into an open field for arrest to face possible execution.

Especially since in the Hamas dictionary Ceasefire is defined as reload period.

Translation.

"We screwed up big time, and didn't expect that Israel would react with the goal of utter destruction of Hamas and its supporters. Now we want to play nice."

Funny how that works.

_Q_ · 10-09-2023, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Oh yes, but here's the point, it's over Israel won and there is no going back, every attack just loses Palestine more, Gaza was exactly what the Muslims wanted, their own country, and now they have likely lost that and for what? 2 days of rape and murder, there is no future that sees Palestine get more land back, they only have land to lose, there is nothing that changes that, does it suck? yes, must suck to live on a res in poverty and watch rich white folk drive by in Teslas, life aint fair

Not sure what the final outcome is in your mind for the Palestinians. Just shrug it off, accept their subjugation and apartheid and just kind of be ok with being treated as subhuman? If Hamas is eradicated in the next few weeks, what do you think happens next?

afc wimbledon · 10-09-2023, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So it's extrapolation?

you have any other explanation for why young women were stripped naked?

PaperBagger'14 · 10-09-2023, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Rape has been mentioned a lot in this thread; does anyone have a source?

The only one I've seen was in the NYT but they walked it back since it was only a single anonymous source.

That Shapiro video showed a clip of Hamas forcing a woman into a SUV with significant blood stains on her sweatpants. I hope I never have to know what rape looks like but I'd imagine that would be the result.

PsYcNeT · 10-09-2023, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

you have any other explanation for why young women were stripped naked?

Just figure if it was widespread there would be multiple eyewitness accounts.

There's enough horrible #### happening, but rape has a strong emotional impact (along with harming children).

Locke · 10-09-2023, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Translation.

"We screwed up big time, and didn't expect that Israel would react with the goal of utter destruction of Hamas and its supporters. Now we want to play nice."

Funny how that works.

Theres no way.

Its not like Israel has a track history of being cuddly teddy-bears who use half-measures. Hamas had to know they would come out intent on cracking some skulls.

Something else has to be going on.

blankall · 10-09-2023, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So it's extrapolation?

Apparently not:

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/gi...ezTxkKPOCxVzTV

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...graphs/675593/

There are witnesses who are reporting rape. The reports match up with the location of recovered female bodies whose clothes appeared ripped off.

afc wimbledon · 10-09-2023, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Q_

Not sure what the final outcome is in your mind for the Palestinians. Just shrug it off, accept their subjugation and apartheid and just kind of be ok with being treated as subhuman? If Hamas is eradicated in the next few weeks, what do you think happens next?

Things get worse for Palestinians, that's it, there is no better for them, just worse, best outcome at this point? get as much help from the rest of the world as they can by promising peace, build schools and collages, educate their kids and get them out of the region

But yes they have to accept it, it's reality, they are subjugated and there is nothing they can do about it

afc wimbledon · 10-09-2023, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Just figure if it was widespread there would be multiple eyewitness accounts.

There's enough horrible #### happening, but rape has a strong emotional impact (along with harming children).

the eyewitnesses are dead, they raped and abducted the girls, everyone else they shot

chemgear · 10-09-2023, 05:42 PM

The German woman killed and spit on by the cheering crowds.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710844819310870779

blankall · 10-09-2023, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Q_

Not sure what the final outcome is in your mind for the Palestinians. Just shrug it off, accept their subjugation and apartheid and just kind of be ok with being treated as subhuman? If Hamas is eradicated in the next few weeks, what do you think happens next?

The final outcome for the Palestinians has likely gotten considerably worse with the events in the last few days. At one point the majority of Israelis did support a two state solution. That solution hinges on trust from both sides, as it would create a long and porous border. I can't see how these events have encouraged many Israelis to support an independent, and likely openly hostile, state running along the entirety of theirs.

Locke · 10-09-2023, 05:44 PM

And now I've been watching Documentaries about the USS Gerald Ford.

That is the serious 'Not F###ing Around Crew.'

chemgear · 10-09-2023, 05:45 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67056741

The last videos taken before the horror began, show it was a festival like any other - young people, dancing at dawn.

We also know that, whether they found the site by accident or not, they came prepared to kill.

Slaughter captured on camera

And then the body by the car moves. The man, who appears to have been playing dead, stirs. He raises his head to see if the coast is clear.

It's a fatal error.

Seconds later, another militant jogs into frame and shoots him in the head at point blank range and walks away.

More than 260 bodies have reportedly been recovered from the site, according to rescue agency Zaka.

Mobile and drone footage lays bare the scale of the Hamas assault, with the roads leading to the sites strewn with cars which had failed to make it through the frenzy of bullets.

One of the most harrowing videos to emerge from the festival is of a woman named on social media as Noa Argamani. In footage posted on social media by Hamas, she is seen being bundled on to the back of a motorcycle by militants crying and screaming, reaching out to a man who is being restrained. He watches on as she is driven away into the distance.