Israel declares war on Hamas

[Itse]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

It is an open air prison ! The Israeli government won the land in a war against Egypt.

Both sides historically are in the wrong .

I really struggle to say that a 20 something who was born into captivity is in the wrong to fight back. What else is there to do.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Palestine has never controlled any territory, historically the land was Ottoman, British and now Jewish.

I agree with the religious part, the sooner people grow brain cells the better.

To add to this, the area was sparsely populated for a long time due to the harsh environmental conditions. When Zionists started purchasing land with the hope of re-establishing a Jewish homeland around Jewish communities, Muslim Arabs also started pushing for settlement in the same area. The idea that Arabs were the indigenous people and Jews just showed up after WW2 isn't true. There was a land grab during the period of British control and both sides participated.

Most Palestinians in West Bank can trace their family back to Jordanian settlers and most in Gaza to Egyptian settlers around the same time that the Jewish diaspora was reclaiming Israel. Both communities did have native representation, and both were bolstered by settlers at around the same time. Jews were in Israel long before the Arab conquests and had continuity there throughout the millennia.

[Manhattanboy]

With respect to Gaza per se, Israel evacuated its settlements and unilaterally withdrew as part of phase 1 of its peace plan - Gaza First. Fatah set up a government but was defeated by Hamas. Since then the Palestinian Authority has never been all that interested in reasserting any control over Gaza.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Itse

I really struggle to say that a 20 something who was born into captivity is in the wrong to fight back. What else is there to do.

I'm agreeing with you. Not against your points.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

To add to this, the area was sparsely populated for a long time due to the harsh environmental conditions. When Zionists started purchasing land with the hope of re-establishing a Jewish homeland around Jewish communities, Muslim Arabs also started pushing for settlement in the same area. The idea that Arabs were the indigenous people and Jews just showed up after WW2 isn't true. There was a land grab during the period British control and both sides participated.

Most Palestinians in West Bank can trace their family back to Jordanian settlers and most in Gaza to Egyptian settlers around the same time that the Jewish diaspora was reclaiming Israel. Both communities did have native representation, and both were bolstered by settlers at around the same time. Jews were in Israel long before the Arab conquests and had continuity there throughout the millennia.

Actually it was WW1. And there was such a immigration rush during the 20's and 30's is why the white papers and Balfour declaration was established to slow the Jewish purchasing power vs Arab purchasing power. The largest immigration was due to the nazi rise and rethoric in Europe at the time. So not false.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Itse

I really struggle to say that a 20 something who was born into captivity is in the wrong to fight back. What else is there to do.

I never blamed the IRA for the troubles, I could see why Catholics resented their situation but the IRA never indiscriminately killed women and kids, there are no pictures of Catholic boys riding around on the naked body of an executed 20 year old girl screaming 'death to all jews'

You want to fight, fair enough, you want to shoot grandmas, kids, women then #### you

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Itse

To put this in 2023 terms, the Palestianians from their perspective are Ukraine and Israel is Russia.

It's the opposite actually. Gaza's dictatorship government official goal is to destroy the independent democratic state that is Israel. Because they believe that Jews are living on the land that historically was theirs. So they keep hitting Kyiv er sorry Tel Aviv with rockets.

As for blaming Israel for Gaza blockade - how comes Muslim Arabic country Egypt also blockades Gaza

The whole issue stems from the fact that Arabs just don't like that Jews have a state there. They declared the war on Israel with stated goal to destroy it on the next day the Israel was founded. Much like Russia, or at least their government, just don't like that Ukrainians have their own state.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

The ottoman empire was mainly Sunni Islam controlled...

We are arguing needle in the haystack postion here. It boils down to Jews vs Islam. Islam had the area for 600 years before the British carved out a traditional Islam Homeland and was like this is fine..

Despite the area both housing majour mosques and twmples or both religions. Absolute power over the region should have never been given to 9ne religion or the other.

The white papers detailed this but were only in effect for 4 years. The region for 90% of history was Arab controlled. The british governent brided the jews in europe to fight agaist Austria and germany in world War 1 and after with the promise of a zionist controlled state. The ottoman empire obviously sided with Germany and after their defeat the British took control of th Arab sunni land and decided this was the land to make good on that promise.
The British during the transition of Arab to Jewish control of the area squashed many Arab uprisings but ultimately the British army backed out as they deemed to many loses .
Historically the area was has always been contested as Jerusalem ( thanks any religion ) is their holy ground. From Christians to jews ( they literally are fight over the same God just differ on how to) . The British unilaterally decided one religion should rule all of them .

Agian I have no dog in this fight but both sides are wrong and it is what it is . It's a holy war in the name of God on both sides . It bs and we should not fund it nor the states . Both sides have been proviking it for decades and a millennia. The fact isreal dosent see their actions to what Hitler did to them is insane. Absolutely insane.

I'd like to see that funding Ukraine over isreal.


Long story short . Britain beat Germany and their allies in ww1. Bribed a relegous sect . Temporary over sight of a territory they had. The going got tough Britain bailed in a manner of " I'm sure this will work out ' and here we are today.

This reads very much like Putin's explaination on why he believes that Ukraine is not a legit state. Long story short, he believes so because Ukraine is a new country that appeared on the land that used to be the heart of Russian homeland, after that homeland was carved apart by the west.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Actually it was WW1. And there was such a immigration rush during the 20's and 30's is why the white papers and Balfour declaration was established to slow the Jewish purchasing power vs Arab purchasing power. The largest immigration was due to the nazi rise and rethoric in Europe at the time. So not false.

If you want to go deep into history, there's no argument that Palestine was a Jewish land long before Arabs. Jesus Christ was a jew, not Arab, and he lived there long before WW1 and Ottoman empire. Maybe you heard of Herod, the Jewish king in that time - Gaza was part of his kingdom (albeit the whole kingdom in turn was a part of Roman empire). Jews were then expelled from the land by Romans after a failed rebellion. Islam as religion was not even founded back then. And eventually, centuries after, Arabs came over and settle in.

[Beninho]

There are rumours circulating that the they have found 200+ bodies at the festival that was being held close to the border. Many Americans, Europeans, and I believe some Canadians. 600+ confirmed dead Israelis, mostly civilians. Holy hell is about to reign down on Gaza

[fotze2]

It seems like such a mind bogglingly stupid move that you wonder if it is an inside job. Does Israel have nukes?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by fotze2

It seems like such a mind bogglingly stupid move that you wonder if it is an inside job. Does Israel have nukes?

Not a crazy amount compared to the U.S., but yes. However, there is no way they would even consider using it on Hamas due to nuclear fallout affecting their population.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by Beninho

There are rumours circulating that the they have found 200+ bodies at the festival that was being held close to the border.

Yep. It was a music festival for peace, too.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710990571718722029

[TheIronMaiden]

I have no appetite for North Americans using archeological arguments for rightful land occupation in the middle East. Makes you sound like a hypocrite.

[transplant99]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710863455941538061

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

This is religion's fault let's not get #### twisted. Jews wanted a empire they can control around their and Islam's sites after world War 1 . The british government bribed them to get support. The Muslims don't like how their native homelands are being controlled and taken away by what the see as an occupation what was Palestine controlled territory historically.

‘Empire’ is an odd word to describe a few hundred thousand people living in a mostly barren wasteland.

And the earliest Jewish settlers who moved to Palestine in the 20th century were mostly socialists rather than Orthodox Jews. The family I stayed with when I was in Israel complained that religious Jews only came in large numbers once the socialists had built up the collective farms and made them safe, fertile, and self-sustaining.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710863455941538061

I watched a bunch of different coverage of the Hamas attacks on Youtube last night: CBC, Reuters, BBC, Channel 4 News, CBS.

Let’s just say the CBC coverage stood out.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Spoiler!

https://www.freepressjournal.in/worl...video-surfaces

Israel Attack: Hamas Militants Parade Naked Body Of Israeli Woman In Open Truck; Disturbing Video Surfaces

It is said that the militants after attacking Israel are killing and taking the civilians as hostage. The militants took the dead bodies of the innocent civilians who were killed during the attack in open trucks and paraded them.

A horrific video is hitting the internet and is going viral on social media. The Hamas militants took the dead body of a woman and paraded it in the city. The Palestinian civilians can be seen in the video abusing the dead body of the woman and also spitting on the woman and also slapping her. Many horrific visuals have come from Israel in which it can be seen that Palestinians have infiltrated south Israel after missile attacks and the can be seen roaming in the streets in their open trucks. They are killing any Israel citizen who is coming in their way.

Ahhh Jesus. Don’t bring Germany into this.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by transplant99

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710863455941538061

BbC does it, and I checked a Reuters and NPR story and none call them terrorists.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...ts-terrorists/

[CliffFletcher]

The Hamas militants took the dead body of a woman and paraded it in the city. The Palestinian civilians can be seen in the video abusing the dead body of the woman and also spitting on the woman and also slapping her.

Difficult to see how murdering and mutilating a foreign music festival attendee was a blow struck against the Zionist oppressors.

Edit: Or smashing in the skull of a Filipino worker and sharing it on social media to a cheering audience; or murdering a grandmother in her home and posting it on her Facebook page; or gunning down Nepalese student interns.

Whatever else Hamas (and their Iranian sponsors) hope to achieve with these attacks, safe to say winning international support for the cause of the Palestinians isn’t on the agenda.