Misinformation

[Fuzz]

Need to work on your reading comprehension.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by FacePaint

Perfect example of misinformation. Food prices are artificially inflated due to bad supply chain management policies which all parties support.

And a tax is a deflationary mechanism. If something costs more and people have less money to spend that will not cause inflation.

Only if it is an elastic good from a supply and demand perspective

Which food and energy are not

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Need to work on your reading comprehension.

Which part isn't being read correctly?

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You didn't explain how the carbon price has been instrumental in keeping food inflation in Canada low compared to peers without a cost reducing tax.

Your words appear to be attributing carbon price as being instrumental in keeping food inflation in Canada low.

Whether you believe your statement, or mentioned it tongue in cheek to doctorfever who is arguing carbon tax has an influence on inflation, that's a statement you made.

Either provide evidence that this statement is true, or retract what is spreading misinformation. Considering how quick people usually are in this forum on fact checking (as you did earlier), and this thread being about misinformation, you don't want to willingly spread misinformation now would you?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Which part isn't being read correctly?



Your words appear to be attributing carbon price as being instrumental in keeping food inflation in Canada low.

Whether you believe your statement, or mentioned it tongue in cheek to doctorfever who is arguing carbon tax has an influence on inflation, that's a statement you made.

Either provide evidence that this statement is true, or retract what is spreading misinformation. Considering how quick people usually are in this forum on fact checking (as you did earlier), and this thread being about misinformation, you don't want to willingly spread misinformation now would you?

Now you are getting it. I'm not retracting anything, it was made to show the absurdity of his unsupported position.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Now you are getting it. I'm not retracting anything, it was made to show the absurdity of his unsupported position.

Ok. I guess you could respond to my post and point that stuff out.

[FacePaint]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Only if it is an elastic good from a supply and demand perspective

Which food and energy are not

Are you being genuine here? You are being very general here... no specific food or form of energy is perfectly inelastic.

[Doctorfever]

Fuzz,
This might help you to understand how the carbon tax is affecting food prices.

https://retail-insider.com/retail-in...-canada-op-ed/

According to a report from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CFIB), more than $8 billion will be collected from small business through the carbon tax by the end of fiscal 2023, and as little as $35 million will be given back as credit in the form of programs. Many small businesses, especially family businesses, are in the food industry. In other words, much of the funding is disappearing into Ottawa’s big black public funding box and few understand what the funds collected through the carbon tax are being used for.

Again, according to a recent survey from the CFIB, 56 percent of businesses will have no other choice but to raise prices due to pressures created by the carbon tax. Some will argue that businesses need to get with the times and reduce their reliance on fossil fuels. But the funds are just not coming quickly enough to support small businesses.

Ottawa should be applauded for doing something about climate change. Whether we agree or not with the carbon tax, at least the government is doing something about the climate change problem. But when looking at supply chain economics, as we see the carbon tax increase over time, our own trust in food affordability hangs in the balance. We need to assess and forecast how the carbon tax will burden our food suppliers over time and evaluate how we can support food companies in their journey to a greener future while remaining profitable.

Many families are already severely impacted by food inflation and some are quick to criticize grocers for higher food prices. What many don’t realize is how our current fiscal regime is making it more difficult for many companies to keep food affordable. Without careful consideration, many families already suffering will be impacted even more by some of these environmental policies. At the very least, we need to know how significant the impact is going to be.

Like I said earlier, the carbon tax cost on a $2 apple isn’t just the cost of one semi to transport it. The cost to the food industry from the carbon tax is compounded by every company they works or deals with any other company related to food production, transportation, packaging, etc.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Fuzz,
This might help you to understand how the carbon tax is affecting food prices.

https://retail-insider.com/retail-in...-canada-op-ed/


Like I said earlier, the carbon tax cost on a $2 apple isn’t just the cost of one semi to transport it. The cost to the food industry from the carbon tax is compounded by every company they works or deals with any other company related to food production, transportation, packaging, etc.

Why don’t they give exact figures of the impact on specific products and how much worse it is compared to fluctuating gas and energy prices?

[opendoor]

I don't know, it seems like pretty simple math to me:

Based on the article Doctorfever linked, the total Carbon Tax revenue in 2022-23 was ~$8B

At current rates, the annual increase in the carbon tax is about ~20-25%.

So that means about $1.5-2.0B in additional carbon tax costs were put on the economy each year. In a ~$2.5T economy with about $1.6T in household final consumption expenditures, that's a very small factor (0.10-0.15 points sounds about right).

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Fuzz,
This might help you to understand how the carbon tax is affecting food prices.

https://retail-insider.com/retail-in...-canada-op-ed/

Like I said earlier, the carbon tax cost on a $2 apple isn’t just the cost of one semi to transport it. The cost to the food industry from the carbon tax is compounded by every company they works or deals with any other company related to food production, transportation, packaging, etc.

Yes, I understand how that works. Added costs should motivate businesses to invest in less carbon intense sources. But really, this is a bit of government failure. Particularly provincial. Alberta can design whatever carbon regime it wants, but it chose to take the federal one. We could have carbon taxes collected an distributed in ways that wouldn't have as much of a financial impact. But we vacated that space to the feds and are premier whines like a toddler, ignoring the fact that we could control our own green destiny. This is what doing nothing looks like.

[MoneyGuy]

This is not a joke. Just heard that Qanon (or other nut jobs) are saying that with an emergency alert in the U.S. at 12:20 MT this afternoon the frequency will cause vaccinated Americans to be turned into zombies. It’s only in the States, thank God, but I’m sure the zombies will make it across the border. Time to build a wall and make Biden pay for it. Tell your family you love them; we don’t know how much time we have.

[Wormius]

If that’s the case then it should be an incentive for producers to reduce their carbon footprints. If products come from a source that utilizes cleaner energy and processes along the whole supply chain, that should lead to lower costs for the consumer and better end result for the planet.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yes, I understand how that works. Added costs should motivate businesses to invest in less carbon intense sources. But really, this is a bit of government failure. Particularly provincial. Alberta can design whatever carbon regime it wants, but it chose to take the federal one. We could have carbon taxes collected an distributed in ways that wouldn't have as much of a financial impact. But we vacated that space to the feds and are premier whines like a toddler, ignoring the fact that we could control our own green destiny. This is what doing nothing looks like.

Well, at least you can see how the carbon tax is affecting food prices, far greater than some numbers out there are saying (that aren’t seeing the whole picture). That is all I was trying to point out.
Thanks

[opendoor]

I'm curious why anyone thinks that the carbon tax inordinately contributes to inflation by compounding beyond its actual cost in a way that normal commodity price fluctuations do not.

As history has clearly demonstrated, we can have 10-20% energy price inflation while having 2-3% food price inflation. Which makes sense, because while energy is one of the things that can drive volatility in food prices, as an input cost it still only represents a portion of the final cost. Given that (which is an inarguable fact), why would a carbon tax that adds a few percent to the price of energy each year be responsible for high food inflation?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by FacePaint

Are you being genuine here? You are being very general here... no specific food or form of energy is perfectly inelastic.

Well nothing is perfectly inelastic (is it ? Been 20 years since economics ) , but food and energy - especially for your home - are 2 very strong examples of inelastic goods

It was in reply too “people have less money so they will spend less on these things and pricing will go down” - which isn’t (overly) true. Maybe gasoline for cars and food to treat yourself will get cut down on - but not eggs , bread , and natural gas for furnaces

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I'm curious why anyone thinks that the carbon tax inordinately contributes to inflation by compounding beyond its actual cost in a way that normal commodity price fluctuations do not.

As history has clearly demonstrated, we can have 10-20% energy price inflation while having 2-3% food price inflation. Which makes sense, because while energy is one of the things that can drive volatility in food prices, as an input cost it still only represents a portion of the final cost. Given that (which is an inarguable fact), why would a carbon tax that adds a few percent to the price of energy each year be responsible for high food inflation?

I think it’s the same logic used by people who argue that raising minimum wage by as little as 5% will somehow result in your meal at McDonald’s doubling in price

[FacePaint]

Here's a pretty good explainer:
https://centreforfuturework.ca/2023/...arbon-pricing/

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I think it’s the same logic used by people who argue that raising minimum wage by as little as 5% will somehow result in your meal at McDonald’s doubling in price

If you are referring to me, you aren’t correct. I just wanted to point out that clearly the carbon tax is affecting the price of food. Didn’t say anything about doubling, but it clearly has contributed to food inflation (by more than what the current research indicates).

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

This is not a joke. Just heard that Qanon (or other nut jobs) are saying that with an emergency alert in the U.S. at 12:20 MT this afternoon the frequency will cause vaccinated Americans to be turned into zombies. It’s only in the States, thank God, but I’m sure the zombies will make it across the border. Time to build a wall and make Biden pay for it. Tell your family you love them; we don’t know how much time we have.

Damn! Now we've got to worry about the Marbug virus, as well? I'm not sure if my vaccination against Marbug is even up-to-date.

[ikaris]

Speaking of misinformation…

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ont...ritical-doctor

It’s funny how the regulatory bodies we are supposed to trust quickly disappear when having put their “facts” in public view. I wonder why they changed their mind on this particular doctor.