Grizzly bear kills two people in Banff National Park

[KelVarnsen]

There are too many irresponsible people in the world. Giving them guns especially in a stressful situation is a terrible idea.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m not a pro-gun person myself, but I don’t know if that’s a great reason why not to have them. “Risk for accidents”… “bad things happen”… well, a bad thing did happen, two people died. I don’t have any problem with guns used by hunters and I don’t think I’d have a problem with guns used by people in the backcountry.

Plus, if an accident did happen with a gun at least we wouldn’t have to kill a bear, a true tragedy.

Wow, did we agree on something? LOL

We spend a ton of time at Boulton Creek campground in Kananaskis in the summer. I carry bear spray when we are hiking around there as there is a lot of bear activity around there. I've gone through the motions in my head, would I have the time to break the strap pull the pin, make sure it's pointing the right direction... yada yada yada, with a charging bear? In all likelihood I'd probably shoot myself in the face with it and nicely season myself.

That being said, as someone who has a ton of firearms experience, I could have a shell racked, safety off, and a gun pointed at its center of mass in about 2 seconds. I'd personally be safer carrying a gun, as would those around me. But the rules don't allow it, and I follow the rules.

But that's not everyone. I get how accidents can happen. I get how a guy who did the absolute bare minimum to get a PAL, and has never been to a range could be more of a liability. You can get a firearms license in this country never having fired a single shot. Which I find troubling.

There's no easy answers.

[burn_this_city]

Problem with guns in parks is they would provide cover to every poacher and itchy trigger finger to decimate the trophy worthy wildlife.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

The guns is just a dumb idea. I doubt it would be any more effective in a stressful situation than releasing bear spray.

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

There are too many irresponsible people in the world. Giving them guns especially in a stressful situation is a terrible idea.

I also do not disagree with the above.....

I have literally seen guys look down the barrels of misfired/jammed handguns and rifles at shooting ranges. I've seen guys bang the buttstocks of rifles on the ground to clear jams.... Multiple times.

There's so many factors that come into play. But, regardless of all of it, these people were dead without a gun. Both or one of them, still had a better chance with one. Depending on their experience with guns, that could be anywhere from 0.01% to 100% better. But it is still better odds. We'll likely never know.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in open carry, or any of that other 'murica nonsense. We have police for a reason. But there is no police to call in the middle of the woods. In 90% of the area in these parks, you don't even have cell service. You are completely on your own.

[PepsiFree]

It’s not like by just extending the area you can carry a gun would suddenly mean thousands of tourists would fancy themselves backcountry specialists and go into the woods packing a 12 gauge they don’t even know how to load.

If there are too many irresponsible people and giving them guns is a bad idea… why don’t they don’t they all have guns already and why aren’t they flooding crown lands?

You aren’t even allowed bear bangers where these folks died, are you? Parks Canada website says no. That seems dumb.

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by pylon

Wow, did we agree on something? LOL

We spend a ton of time at Boulton Creek campground in Kananaskis in the summer. I carry bear spray when we are hiking around there as there is a lot of bear activity around there. I've gone through the motions in my head, would I have the time to break the strap pull the pin, make sure it's pointing the right direction... yada yada yada, with a charging bear? In all likelihood I'd probably shoot myself in the face with it and nicely season myself.

That being said, as someone who has a ton of firearms experience, I could have a shell racked, safety off, and a gun pointed at its center of mass in about 2 seconds. I'd personally be safer carrying a gun, as would those around me. But the rules don't allow it, and I follow the rules.

But that's not everyone. I get how accidents can happen. I get how a guy who did the absolute bare minimum to get a PAL, and has never been to a range could be more of a liability. You can get a firearms license in this country never having fired a single shot. Which I find troubling.

There's no easy answers.

What strap? Do you leave the white zip tie thing on after buying it?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s just expanding the area where guns are allowed in the bush, it’s not like they aren’t already being used.

How do you think bears that pose a threat get put down by wildlife officers? I assumed they shot them, and I don’t know if coming across an angry bear eating people is a lot less stressful than coming across a bear in general.

Of course wildlife officers are going to use a rifle to put down a dangerous animal. But I believe they’ll be a lot more responsible and cognizant of the hazards of using a gun than anyone else in that situation is.

But by stressful situation, I am talking about when a hiker and bear unexpectedly cross paths. Spraying the bear spray isn’t as complicated as Pylon makes it out to be,as if he was some hapless subject of an informercial, where the only other option is jingling bear bells in a panic.

Even if you do spray it in the wrong direction, it will be better than shooting in the wrong direction, except that maybe the sound could spook the bear.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

There are too many irresponsible people in the world. Giving them guns especially in a stressful situation is a terrible idea.

It’s a good thing we have strict laws about owning and possessing firearms, you know, so we don’t have to ‘give’ guns to a bunch of irresponsible people.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by wwkayaker

What strap? Do you leave the white zip tie thing on after buying it?

?? The white zip tie is so you don’t lose the safety lock.

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by Wormius

?? The white zip tie is so you don’t lose the safety lock.

There is a plastic strap on the trigger so they can’t be discharged in the store accidentally. I’ve seen hikers who haven’t removed it and they would need to cut that strap, remove the safety and then spray. You need a knife to get the strap off.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not like by just extending the area you can carry a gun would suddenly mean thousands of tourists would fancy themselves backcountry specialists and go into the woods packing a 12 gauge they don’t even know how to load.

If there are too many irresponsible people and giving them guns is a bad idea… why don’t they don’t they all have guns already and why aren’t they flooding crown lands?

You aren’t even allowed bear bangers where these folks died, are you? Parks Canada website says no. That seems dumb.

Bingo.

There is known areas where guys set up makeshift ranges on crown land. Yes, every now and then you end up setting up with someone else in the area at the same time. I've actually made a couple friends over the years doing just that.

However, in all the years I've carried on crown land hiking in the middle of nowhere. I think once I crossed paths with another person with a rifle slung on their back. I think people underestimate how truly sparse and remote the wilderness really is.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not like by just extending the area you can carry a gun would suddenly mean thousands of tourists would fancy themselves backcountry specialists and go into the woods packing a 12 gauge they don’t even know how to load.

If there are too many irresponsible people and giving them guns is a bad idea… why don’t they don’t they all have guns already and why aren’t they flooding crown lands?

You aren’t even allowed bear bangers where these folks died, are you? Parks Canada website says no. That seems dumb.

Agreeing with Pepsi on this one.

It's not like it would become Murica in Banff overnight..

That's what I mean by Parks being a bit too stringent with these very limiting rules in a specific area of land that in many places has no marked boundaries. They're run like their own states within a country.

I swear the parks and people running them value animal lives well above human lives and their rules reflect that. In the ultra remote red deer valley that's a known grizzly corridor you should absolutely be allowed bear bangers for protection. We could be talking about the difference between one or more of these people surviving or not if they were allowed and encouraged the extra protective measures.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Agreeing with Pepsi on this one.

It's not like it would become Murica in Banff overnight..

That's what I mean by Parks being a bit too stringent with these very limiting rules in a specific area of land that in many places has no marked boundaries. They're run like their own states within a country.

I swear the parks and people running them value animal lives well above human lives and their rules reflect that. In the ultra remote red deer valley that's a known grizzly corridor you should absolutely be allowed bear bangers for protection. We could be talking about the difference between one or more of these people surviving or not if they were allowed and encouraged the extra protective measures.

You don't really get the purpose of parks, do you? It's pretty simple. If you can't abide by the rules and are too scared of nature, don't go in them. Can we please just have a few areas where humans aren't the number #1 priority for all activities? As Pylon said, plenty of other remote areas to hang out. Go there.



I didn't even know anti-park people existed, but here we are.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Buff

What about wasps?

[chedder]

If details of what exactly happened ever come out to the public it will be interesting to know if bear spray was deployed. Or if they were in or out of their tent and how the dog might have been involved.

Tragic, but at least there could be some knowledge gained.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

The backcountry probably shouldn't be subject to the same blanket rules as the townsite of Banff and surrounding major tourist areas when the rules are likely made with the idea of keeping the inexperienced and sometimes unruly tourist crowds in check, and limiting impact on the wildlife.

People in those respective places are facing different situations, one with much more elevated risks.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by chedder

If details of what exactly happened ever come out to the public it will be interesting to know if bear spray was deployed. Or if they were in or out of their tent and how the dog might have been involved.

Tragic, but at least there could be some knowledge gained.

I hope more information is made available for that reason. These are situations we want to analyze and learn from.

[PepsiFree]

If watching Alone has taught me anything it’s that people who aren’t afraid to hunt or kill big game and predators and want to be equipped to do so are better at surviving and belong in the “wild” more than people who get upset because they yelled at a bear and were worried that they caused it emotional distress.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by chedder

If details of what exactly happened ever come out to the public it will be interesting to know if bear spray was deployed. Or if they were in or out of their tent and how the dog might have been involved.

Tragic, but at least there could be some knowledge gained.

I think they will be releasing some details tomorrow, so hopefully something can be learned.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I just worry that if it happened while tenting in the dark that it will result in a "Backcountry 2" film being made about this tragedy.