2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

For real.
His ppg average is 0.69.
I appreciate that he does a lot of other good things on the ice, but there's no way we need to pay 8 figures for ~60 points/season.
Anything over $8.5 is crazy.

While I roughly agree with you on the ~$8.5M figure in principle, he's a lot more than a 60pt center and the discussion is also a lot more nuanced than just him as a player.
During his tenure with the Flames, on a prorated and normalized basis, he's a 34G 72PT center, while also being a Selke finalist. $1M/10pts seems like the standard, so your at ~$7.5M. Add in small market premium, cap increase protection and player intangibles (goal scoring and defensive ability) and your probably looking at a ~$9M AAV.
Cap management is extremely important, every penny counts, however say we give him $10M, if he continues to put up 70-80pts for the duration of his contract (highly likely), are we going to be super worried about overpaying our #1C by ~$1.5M, or 1.8% on a $82.5M cap?

Overpaying players is really only an issue when you overpay the wrong players. If you overpay your #1C, D or G by $1M, I really don't think it's the end of the world. Teams get in trouble overpaying for bottom 6 players.
The other question you have to ask yourself is, who do we replace Lindholm with if we either trade him or he walks? Ownership wants a team challenging for the playoffs and Lindholm-Kadri-Backlund is a helluva lot better than Kadri-Backlund-xxx. Then at the end of the season, your back at square one either over paying for a UFA who you don't know as well or trading futures for one.

IMO, $9.25M +- 250k would be a good compromise for what he brings.

Edit: I also want to add in that the last time this happened it was with Gaudreau, should be fresh in Conroy's mind. Contract year, the player is gonna do everything in his power to have a career year. The sooner this gets done, the better. I would wager that if this spills into the regular season, the chances of signing go exponentially down.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

While I roughly agree with you on the ~$8.5M figure in principal, he's a lot more than a 60pt center and the discussion is also a lot more nuanced than just him as a player.
During his tenure with the Flames, on a prorated and normalized basis, he's a 34G 72PT center, while also being a Selke finalist. $1M/10pts seems like the standard, so your at ~$7.5M. Add in small market premium, cap increase protection and player intangibles (goal scoring and defensive ability) and your probably looking at a ~$9M AAV.
Cap management is extremely important, every penny counts, however say we give him $10M, if he continues to put up 70-80pts for the duration of his contract (highly likely), are we going to be super worried about overpaying our #1C by ~$1.5M, or 1.8% on a $82.5M cap?

Overpaying players is really only an issue when you overpay the wrong players. If you overpay your #1C, D or G by $1M, I really don't think it's the end of the world. Teams get in trouble overpaying for bottom 6 players.
The other question you have to ask yourself is, who do we replace Lindholm with if we either trade him or he walks? Ownership wants a team challenging for the playoffs and Lindholm-Kadri-Backlund is a helluva lot better than Kadri-Backlund-xxx. Then at the end of the season, your back at square one either over paying for a UFA who you don't know as well or trading futures for one.

IMO, $9.25M +- 250k would be a good compromise for what he brings.

Edit: I also want to add in that the last time this happened it was with Gaudreau, should be fresh in Conroy's mind. Contract year, the player is gonna do everything in his power to have a career year. The sooner this gets done, the better. I would wager that if this spills into the regular season, the chances of signing go exponentially down.

A lot of people have been using the $100k per point model for years now. It has worked but the cap has been fairly flat for a while. As the cap goes up, you need to adjust that. 2018/19 cap was $79.5 mil and it only gone up $4 mil in 5 seasons. The model still has worked for the last 5 years, cap goes up it needs to be adjusted. For this contract I would use $110K or even $120K. He's worth $8.5 mil per year and it's ridiculous that anyone would argue this. The problem is, I'm certain the Flames would sign that deal. Lindholm probaby wants more.

I'm personally not a fan of that model too. Some players do much more than score.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Don't know if this was noted, but Frank on the Fan this morning said that around the league Vladar is looked at as a potential starter. So that's why the Flames aren't just going to dump him.

Also a couple of interesting tidbits on Huberdeau:
- He told him that last season was the first time he didn't have fun playing hockey and that Calgary "hasn't seen Jonathan Huberdeau yet"
- Frank predicts 90 points from him.

[Chonger]

Why practice smart asset management when you could just re-sign everyone that wasn't good enough to retirement anchors?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Chonger

Why practice smart asset management when you could just re-sign everyone that wasn't good enough to retirement anchors?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

If you want a rebuild you have to be praying that Lindholm wants out. There is no center they can get or have in the pipeline that will replace him

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Chonger

Why practice smart asset management when you could just re-sign everyone that wasn't good enough to retirement anchors?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Are you trying to be a wet blanket in every thread?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

While I roughly agree with you on the ~$8.5M figure in principal, he's a lot more than a 60pt center and the discussion is also a lot more nuanced than just him as a player.
During his tenure with the Flames, on a prorated and normalized basis, he's a 34G 72PT center, while also being a Selke finalist. $1M/10pts seems like the standard, so your at ~$7.5M. Add in small market premium, cap increase protection and player intangibles (goal scoring and defensive ability) and your probably looking at a ~$9M AAV.
Cap management is extremely important, every penny counts, however say we give him $10M, if he continues to put up 70-80pts for the duration of his contract (highly likely), are we going to be super worried about overpaying our #1C by ~$1.5M, or 1.8% on a $82.5M cap?

Overpaying players is really only an issue when you overpay the wrong players. If you overpay your #1C, D or G by $1M, I really don't think it's the end of the world. Teams get in trouble overpaying for bottom 6 players.
The other question you have to ask yourself is, who do we replace Lindholm with if we either trade him or he walks? Ownership wants a team challenging for the playoffs and Lindholm-Kadri-Backlund is a helluva lot better than Kadri-Backlund-xxx. Then at the end of the season, your back at square one either over paying for a UFA who you don't know as well or trading futures for one.

IMO, $9.25M +- 250k would be a good compromise for what he brings.

Edit: I also want to add in that the last time this happened it was with Gaudreau, should be fresh in Conroy's mind. Contract year, the player is gonna do everything in his power to have a career year. The sooner this gets done, the better. I would wager that if this spills into the regular season, the chances of signing go exponentially down.

You really think it’s highly likely Lindholm will put up 70-80 points over the next 9 years?

He’s done it twice.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

Overpaying players is really only an issue when you overpay the wrong players.

Or too old, which he is for an 8 year deal. We don't have a first line guy to replace him? He's not that much of a unicorn. If you sign him to a 9.5 x 8 he's your first line guy for 9 years no matter how bad he gets. If a better guy comes along in the next 9 years, too bad, you've made your choice.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Or too old, which he is for an 8 year deal. We don't have a first line guy to replace him? He's not that much of a unicorn. If you sign him to a 9.5 x 8 he's your first line guy for 9 years no matter how bad he gets. If a better guy comes along in the next 9 years, too bad, you've made your choice.

Teams can't have 2 good centermen? This is news to me.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Teams can't have 2 good centermen? This is news to me.

There's some kind of thing that you're not allowed to spend an infinite amount of money. Can't remember... ah well most people seem to forget it's there anyway.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Redrum

There's some kind of thing that you're not allowed to spend an infinite amount of money. Can't remember... ah well most people seem to forget it's there anyway.

Maybe not infinite, but I was under the impression that it's possible to squeeze two players under the cap.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Maybe not infinite, but I was under the impression that it's possible to squeeze two players under the cap.

And a team I guess. One with several anchors already, and several more to come over 9 years, if it's even possible to fit them. But most people forget that too.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Don't know if this was noted, but Frank on the Fan this morning said that around the league Vladar is looked at as a potential starter. So that's why the Flames aren't just going to dump him.

Also a couple of interesting tidbits on Huberdeau:
- He told him that last season was the first time he didn't have fun playing hockey and that Calgary "hasn't seen Jonathan Huberdeau yet"
- Frank predicts 90 points from him.

Very excited to see the real Huberdeau!

[Chonger]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Are you trying to be a wet blanket in every thread?

Until I get my rebuild or this team proves me wrong

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Chonger

Until I get my rebuild or this team proves me wrong

So you're going to change the team's direction by making CPers suffer?

Sounds like a plan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Chonger

Until I get my rebuild or this team proves me wrong

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

fun!

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You really think it’s highly likely Lindholm will put up 70-80 points over the next 9 years?

He’s done it twice.

I think he can average a ~0.9ppg pace until he's 36/37. By that point, a $9.5M AAV will be a much smaller % of the cap and he'll still be a great #2C.
We said the same exact thing about Backlund when he signed his 6year deal in 2018. There was a thought around here that he'd drop off toward the end of the deal and that 5.35M for a 34 and 35yo Backlund was too much. He put up career high in points last season and I imagine will hover around that 0.55PPG range, as he's always done, for the next 3years. I see Lindholm as no different.

I go back to the point of, if we don't sign Lindholm, who do we see as his replacement?

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Or too old, which he is for an 8 year deal. We don't have a first line guy to replace him? He's not that much of a unicorn. If you sign him to a 9.5 x 8 he's your first line guy for 9 years no matter how bad he gets. If a better guy comes along in the next 9 years, too bad, you've made your choice.

New contracts are indexed to increases in the cap. A Lindholm replica will cost considerably more in the future than right now.

[NegativeSpace]

Well that was an easy add to the ignore list.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Fan960 morning crew were discussing this with Frank this morning. Paraphrasing, but they asked Frank "is the number 10 (million)" and Frank said the Flames don't want to go there.

It certainly feels like Lindholm wants $10 given how his interviews have gone.

I had reported months ago that the Lindholm camps ask was 9.5 x 8 years. They have not budged any off that ask as far as I have been told.