Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL...
do you know the definition of "working on"? That doesn't mean they have been successful. Smith has been bleating on about the APP since, oh, at least 20 years herself.


https://daveberta.substack.com/p/alb...an-games-begin

Do you think she is going to approach this conversation honestly and put it straight to Albertans, or do you think she is going to pick and choose what she likes to get what she has wanted for 20 years? I'm not really sure the level of dumb you would have to be to get your facts on this issue from Smith, but I can guarantee it's an amazingly high level of dumb.

And now you are getting it. That's exactly the issue, there is no leverage.

Side note, the last paragraph in that opinion piece us ####ing hilarious given how reality has played out. 20 years of Albertans being fooled, and some how they keep lining up for it.

I think my favourites are the lines here that are completely unfounded, but she presents them as fact. Like "The notion that a cadre of Ottawa bureaucrats will have that much control over Canadian pension assets should be unsettling." Ok...why? Just because you say so?

Part of sheer stupidity with this plan (and there are so many parts), is that managing a sudden influx of say $300bn (which is never going to happen), isn't as easy as people think. You don't just decide that September 22 that money comes into your account and click your mouse a couple times to allocate this. I've defended Aimco many times here, and they're good asset managers, so let's just get that out of the way. It's not about competence. But you can't just say "here's what we're doing today, and now we have 10x the money, so we'll do that times ten." It's ridiculously naive to even suggest that it could work that way.

And Danielle Smith giving her little piece of asset management advice to the CPPIB in that column is beyond the pale. She has no expertise, no education and there is absolutely nothing she can add to advise these people. I would call it the stupidest thing that she ever wrote, but it's difficult to say because there is so much competition in the category.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well that's the concern, isn't it? Smith promises a bigger pension, less money to Ottawa for policing, taxes, etc. Doesn't matter if it is true or not, all she has to do is fool people into thinking they'll be better off financially. That's a pretty easy card to play.

The latest polls show 22 per cent support in this province for Alberta separation. If you want to lose sleep over it, be my guest.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The latest polls show 22 per cent support in this province for Alberta separation. If you want to lose sleep over it, be my guest.

Well that's exactly what she is working around. While separation is that unpopular, she can implement indivdual aspects that move us closer to it and further from the rest of Canada. It may not be separation, but the indivdual aspects of it are all things a separate Alberta would require.


I do find that concerning, because I am Canadian first, and any benefits Alberta has should be shared with our fellow citizens, not snatched away like a greedy child. She's the personification of selfish Alberta, and it's ####ing embarrassing.

[Izzle]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1704850265315385441

[edslunch]

It will be interesting to see how and when the CPP withdrawal rules are interpreted, and who has the final say. (I'm guessing the Supreme Court?).

I don't think it should be as simple as getting out what you put in + gains - withdrawals, since it doesn't work that way for the participants. I don't get my contributions plus rate of return, I get a fixed formula payout. Very likely CPP has made more off me than I will get back, but that's the social contract that makes it sustainable and equitable for all Canadians.

Looking at it that way, I would think Alberta is entitled to an amount that fully covers our pension commitments plus a portion of any surplus funds after other province's commitments are met.

I don't buy the argument that Alberta has over-contributed. Higher income individuals in Alberta have over-contributed, just as higher income individuals in every province have. I bet Ontario has more individuals that have over-contributed than Alberta has, just by sheer population size. The GTA alone probably has more. Why should Albertans be made whole for the total return on their contributions and people in other provinces shouldn't?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by edslunch

. Higher income individuals in Alberta have over-contributed, just as higher income individuals in every province have.

It really isn't higher income people that overcontribute, it's anyone whose career was solely after the changes in early 90s. There are no income levels that covered their pensions before that, and all income levels are covering their own pensions plus some of the previous deficit after.

Since Alberta is younger and growing faster than the other provinces over the last 30 years, we have a disproportionate number of people over contributing.

[Leondros]

How does it work for Quebecois who leave the province to go to other provinces upon retirement? What are they entitled to?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Leondros

How does it work for Quebecois who leave the province to go to other provinces upon retirement? What are they entitled to?

It's basically the same as any other DB plan, or a Canadian who retires abroad. They're entitled to their pension and will still receive it.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Leondros

How does it work for Quebecois who leave the province to go to other provinces upon retirement? What are they entitled to?

Their pension would pay them in their province of residence.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

It really isn't higher income people that overcontribute, it's anyone whose career was solely after the changes in early 90s. There are no income levels that covered their pensions before that, and all income levels are covering their own pensions plus some of the previous deficit after.

Since Alberta is younger and growing faster than the other provinces over the last 30 years, we have a disproportionate number of people over contributing.

And attached to that younger population that are contributing more, you have a larger liability down the road. It's not just extra money kicking around that no one knows what to do with, there is the legal obligation to pay 100% of what pensioners are entitled to for a not insignificant period of their lives.

I know you know this...but would appear that many of the "Albertans pay too much!" crowd are ignoring that piece of the equation.

[Fuzz]

To me it seems like it would make more sense to have a transition date, and anything before that date is CPP, and after APP. If you are retired, no change. If you aren't you get 2 pensions. APP starts from scratch. I know that erases this imaginary "Ottawa owes Alberta money" nonsense, but it seems this would be the most logical way to do it.

[MoneyGuy]

Trudeau must be loving this. I wonder if Smith is handing the next federal election to the Liberals.

Trudeau, probably: “Look at what the conservatives in Alberta are doing. They’re coming for your CPP money. Do you want conservatives running the country?”

[powderjunkie]

I can't fathom any way a lump sum withdrawl would be remotely feasible. It would have to start from scrathc.

[Faust]

Alberta Pension Plan engagement:

https://www.alberta.ca/alberta-pension-plan-engagement

[Faust]

Great Twitter thread topic from the Breakdown:

So…

The survey that the government has put out seems to make it extraordinarily clear that the decision has very much been made that Albertans will be facing a referendum on an Alberta Pension Plan…

(Thread)

/1

#abpoli #ableg #cdnpoli

https://twitter.com/thebreakdownab/s...842431975?s=21

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Trudeau must be loving this. I wonder if Smith is handing the next federal election to the Liberals.

Trudeau, probably: “Look at what the conservatives in Alberta are doing. They’re coming for your CPP money. Do you want conservatives running the country?”

Def this will save him no one will even look at the last 8 years.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Faust

Alberta Pension Plan engagement:

https://www.alberta.ca/alberta-pension-plan-engagement

Not a single question regarding whether you would even want the APP. Completely stupid.

[PsYcNeT]

I mean if Trudeau skates through another election, it will once again be because the Conservatives at large have failed to convince Canadians they are a better option, not because he's a good choice.

Smith, Ford, Moe and Stefanson have all stepped in it to varying degrees in the last few weeks, and are showing no signs of stopping to scrape off their shoes.

[woob]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not a single question regarding whether you would even want the APP. Completely stupid.

Yeah I noticed that too. Typical.

[Izzle]

Lol an absolute garbage survey.