MacKenzie Weegar rocks

[Jiri Hrdina]

Again you are largely ignoring the dynamics that were in play
After Tkachuk said he wouldn’t extend they offered him arbitration. In doing so they guarded against offer sheets and also prevented him signing his qualifying offer to walk to ufa a year out. Which was the right move
But it put them on a clock and set a hard deadline because if he goes to arbitration that’s a one year deal.
So they didn’t have time to screw around. If Florida pulls their deal the Flames are f’d. And every team knew those elements and the fact that there were only three teams in play.
They needed to get serious fast and did with the team offering the most

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I never heard Jarvis being included and would doubt that.
Suspect it was Necas+1st+roster player to offset salary.

You would be correct, I was told Treliving insisted on him and it was rejected so he went with Florida's offer.

A little tidbit I heard, during the 2020 draft Calgary and Toronto had a deal in place to swap 1st rounders with the Flames adding Dube but Calgary nixed it when Carolina took Jarvis 13th.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

You would be correct, I was told Treliving insisted on him and it was rejected so he went with Florida's offer.

A little tidbit I heard, during the 2020 draft Calgary and Toronto had a deal in place to swap 1st rounders with the Flames adding Dube but Calgary nixed it when Carolina took Jarvis 13th.

I’m sure we were happy with Coronato a year later, I view them the same.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Maybe. But I do wonder how much they actually pursued other deals or negotiations. From a Blues perspective, Tkachuk is a clear upgrade on Kyrou so that more than makes sense for them. Carolina is knocked for not having a true superstar. Tkachuk could have helped them big time in that area. I don't think a deal around Necas and Jarvis is unrealistic considering both were career high 40 pts players and Tkachuk just put up over 100pts. Teams might have low balled and Florida made a strong offer and Brad then zeroed in on that deal. I do wonder if he even tried to use the Florida deal as leverage to renegotiate with other teams. I think the organization felt a bit embarrassed and resentful with Gaudreau and Tkachuk bolting, and they were dead set on not letting that take down the team, and the Florida deal probably did address that best in the present.

The Blues basically set all their hopes on Tkachuk forcing his way to them. Their beat writers were saying so and their offer reflected that. Even once Treliving had the Florida offer in hand and went back to Carolina and St Louis they could have have said eff that can’t beat it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Maybe. But I do wonder how much they actually pursued other deals or negotiations. From a Blues perspective, Tkachuk is a clear upgrade on Kyrou so that more than makes sense for them. Carolina is knocked for not having a true superstar. Tkachuk could have helped them big time in that area. I don't think a deal around Necas and Jarvis is unrealistic considering both were career high 40 pts players and Tkachuk just put up over 100pts. Teams might have low balled and Florida made a strong offer and Brad then zeroed in on that deal. I do wonder if he even tried to use the Florida deal as leverage to renegotiate with other teams. I think the organization felt a bit embarrassed and resentful with Gaudreau and Tkachuk bolting, and they were dead set on not letting that take down the team, and the Florida deal probably did address that best in the present.

Treliving had a reputation for being plugged into every GM and in on everything.

Seems like a huge stretch to assume he didn't push all the parties interested as far as he could before making a decision.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

You would be correct, I was told Treliving insisted on him and it was rejected so he went with Florida's offer.

A little tidbit I heard, during the 2020 draft Calgary and Toronto had a deal in place to swap 1st rounders with the Flames adding Dube but Calgary nixed it when Carolina took Jarvis 13th.

Zary and Dube for Jarvis? Absolutely no questions asked in a heartbeat.

[ricardodw]

In Treliving's mind he got absolutely the best trade for Tkachuk. He paid Huberdeau a million a year more than what Florida paid Tkachuk to keep him from becoming a UFA.

Try finding any other player that Treliving thought was worth 10.5 million x 8 or at least would be in 2023 UFA cycle. Kyrou 8.1, Necas , Jarvis are not getting 10.5 in their next contract.

It comes down to a misevaluation of a 30 year old player by the Flames organization.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Was that at sulfur mountain?

[Enoch Root]

Wait, so paying a star UFA more money than a pair of 21 and a 23 year olds, that have had career highs of 40 and 41 points, respectively, equals a misevaluation of a player?

Hot take.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again you are largely ignoring the dynamics that were in play
After Tkachuk said he wouldn’t extend they offered him arbitration. In doing so they guarded against offer sheets and also prevented him signing his qualifying offer to walk to ufa a year out. Which was the right move
But it put them on a clock and set a hard deadline because if he goes to arbitration that’s a one year deal.
So they didn’t have time to screw around. If Florida pulls their deal the Flames are f’d. And every team knew those elements and the fact that there were only three teams in play.
They needed to get serious fast and did with the team offering the most

Tkachuk was traded 3 weeks before his arbitration date.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Treliving had a reputation for being plugged into every GM and in on everything.

Seems like a huge stretch to assume he didn't push all the parties interested as far as he could before making a decision.

They filed for arbitration on the 18th and he was traded on the 22nd. Not exactly a huge stretch.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Tkachuk was traded 3 weeks before his arbitration date.

Three weeks is not a lot of time – especially for the team trading for him. He not only had to be traded, but signed to an extension before his arbitration hearing.

If Treliving had spent most of those three weeks pestering St. Louis and Carolina on the phone, do you really think he would have got a better offer than the one he took from Florida?

[Strange Brew]

Three weeks is certainly enough time to evaluate other offers and contact other teams. But there are two parties to a negotiation and no reason to think that the Panthers were going to sit idly by. They may well have put some time constraints on Treliving.

I think from BT’s perspective, Florida was saying yes to everything he was asking for. There’s a point where if you are involved in good faith negotiations and your counterparty agrees to all your demands, you shake hands.

It was a great trade for the Flames IMO. What they did with the pick and the rush to sign Huberdeau can certainly be second guessed.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Three weeks is not a lot of time – especially for the team trading for him. He not only had to be traded, but signed to an extension before his arbitration hearing.

If Treliving had spent most of those three weeks pestering St. Louis and Carolina on the phone, do you really think he would have got a better offer than the one he took from Florida?

Okay so you proved my point. There is no way Treliving saw other teams best deals or got into serious negotiations with other teams. Tkachuk was traded 5 days after letting the Flames know he wouldn't resign and the majority of those 5 days were likely spent putting the deal together as you say.

And I've never said he could have got a better deal. I've said he could have got a deal that was better long term for the Flames. Not two 30 year Olds who got 8 year retirement contracts.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Three weeks is certainly enough time to evaluate other offers and contact other teams. But there are two parties to a negotiation and no reason to think that the Panthers were going to sit idly by. They may well have put some time constraints on Treliving.

I think from BT’s perspective, Florida was saying yes to everything he was asking for. There’s a point where if you are involved in good faith negotiations and your counterparty agrees to all your demands, you shake hands.

It was a great trade for the Flames IMO. What they did with the pick and the rush to sign Huberdeau can certainly be second guessed.

I think Treliving got an offer he felt brought the team back as quickly as possible and zeroed in on that deal solely. Value wise it was a good trade. Compete immediately good trade. But I think he or management or ownership got fixated on we need to fix this immediately and didn't fully consider the big picture.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Okay so you proved my point. There is no way Treliving saw other teams best deals or got into serious negotiations with other teams. Tkachuk was traded 5 days after letting the Flames know he wouldn't resign and the majority of those 5 days were likely spent putting the deal together as you say...

Why would a team make an offer for Tkachuk without a signed contract? What sort of deal do you imagine the Flames would have gotten for just his negotiating rights? There is no chance that there was a better deal out there, and I think you are dramatically overestimating the value of any futures he might have returned from anyone.


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[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hackey

They filed for arbitration on the 18th and he was traded on the 22nd. Not exactly a huge stretch.

It's a huge stretch considering the man's reputations. Yes.

A filing date doesn't mean there wasn't discussions between the agent and Treliving, and Treliving and other teams before he filed.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Okay so you proved my point. There is no way Treliving saw other teams best deals or got into serious negotiations with other teams. Tkachuk was traded 5 days after letting the Flames know he wouldn't resign and the majority of those 5 days were likely spent putting the deal together as you say.

And I've never said he could have got a better deal. I've said he could have got a deal that was better long term for the Flames. Not two 30 year Olds who got 8 year retirement contracts.

Nothing is proven at all.

You're making points of certainty when you have none at all.

[Mr.Coffee]

It was a great trade. Borderline one of the best in Flames history. What happened after is what screwed everything up.

[Locke]

Are Weegar rocks something like 'Pet Rocks?'

Can you get them at the FanAttic?