MacKenzie Weegar rocks

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No, no no, you don’t understand. Obviously a whole bunch of teams (that Tkachuk wanted to go to) were offering a lot more than a 100+ point forward, a top pairing Dman, a decent prospect and a first round pick. All those reports must be wrong.

Just curious, how old are you?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Carolina trade was likely the best for the team long term but not without the benefit of hindsight. The Florida deal allowed the Flsmes on paper to remain a top contender but getting Necas++ would have been better long term but he hasn’t broke out yet so it was a risk. Not sure I believe it but I had read the offer was Necas+Jarvis+Gardiner+pick and the Flames pushed for Pecse or another D but the Canes didn’t want to. Not sure how true that was as it was a bit of a OJ rumor

Necas, Jarvis, and a pick would have been a solid return.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Carolina trade was likely the best for the team long term but not without the benefit of hindsight. The Florida deal allowed the Flsmes on paper to remain a top contender but getting Necas++ would have been better long term but he hasn’t broke out yet so it was a risk. Not sure I believe it but I had read the offer was Necas+Jarvis+Gardiner+pick and the Flames pushed for Pecse or another D but the Canes didn’t want to. Not sure how true that was as it was a bit of a OJ rumor

That’s better than what I heard. Basically Necas plus some salary to make it work but mine needs to be taken with a boulder sized piece of salt

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Florida got a superstar young player who signed for 8 years for all of his prime years.

Calgary can never win this trade.

But Calgary was forced to trade this player. They were never going to win it.

Florida is undoubtedly leading now. However, that 1st is still in play.


As well, who knows - if Calgary wins a cup in the next couple of seasons with Huberdeau and Weegar in the lineup and playing big roles, suddenly the pendulum swings the other way.


The Hull trade was 'embarrassingly disastrous' when you look at it on paper, but as soon as you tally up that one Stanley Cup, it is a trade that you repeat every time.



I thought Calgary did well. Florida is now looking like they absolutely fleeced the Flames. I think the pendulum isn't finished swinging yet. It will just be one of those trades that will need to be judged years later.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Carolina was the runner up and it was Necas with a pick and I think 1 more player. It was alluded to by Bean when he said we had a futures trade, and touched on by Lebrun in his article.

St. Louis was never close they offered us a bag of trash, the same bag that the idiot writer in St. Louis thought would have easily gotten it done.

When you hear Treliving say when you hear the names being discussed you immediately turn your attention to the deal we got and we zeroed in on Florida.

Everyone keeps talking about Huberdeau but Weegar is a big piece of the deal and we don't upgrade on Sean without that 1st regardless of your feelings on Kadri. Kadri was a clear upgrade at the time, and still probably is long term.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I never heard Jarvis being included and would doubt that.
Suspect it was Necas+1st+roster player to offset salary.

[Hackey]

A 24 year old who just put up over 100 pts for two guys who hadnt broken 40 pts doesnt sound unrealistic. At the end of the day the Flames got good value so I understand why they jumped on the deal but I don't think they saw other teams best offers either based on how quickly they pulled the trigger.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Hackey

A 24 year old who just put up over 100 pts for two guys who hadnt broken 40 pts doesnt sound unrealistic. At the end of the day the Flames got good value so I understand why they jumped on the deal but I don't think they saw other teams best offers either based on how quickly they pulled the trigger.

They had a very small number of teams they could trade with.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

A 24 year old who just put up over 100 pts for two guys who hadnt broken 40 pts doesnt sound unrealistic. At the end of the day the Flames got good value so I understand why they jumped on the deal but I don't think they saw other teams best offers either based on how quickly they pulled the trigger.

They had to move quickly because of the nature of the contract. They couldn’t afford to wait for a better deal

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hackey

A 24 year old who just put up over 100 pts for two guys who hadnt broken 40 pts doesnt sound unrealistic. At the end of the day the Flames got good value so I understand why they jumped on the deal but I don't think they saw other teams best offers either based on how quickly they pulled the trigger.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They had to move quickly because of the nature of the contract. They couldn’t afford to wait for a better deal

There almost certainly would not have been a better deal under any circumstances. I get that fans are disappointed by the Flames losing Tkachuk, but they got an excellent deal for him with Florida, period. There is no reason to second-gurss what happened.

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[Hackey]

I've said multiple times they got good value, probably the best value for competing now. But it is an interesting conversation to consider what other deals could have been available. I do think they were short sighted because even lesser value deals of younger players I think would have given them more runway to build around.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I've said multiple times they got good value, probably the best value for competing now. But it is an interesting conversation to consider what other deals could have been available. I do think they were short sighted because even lesser value deals of younger players I think would have given them more runway to build around.

If a player like Kyrou was on the table then I think they would have gone that route. Necas looks way better in hindsight because he broke out last year but at the time it would have been a 40pt guy and a 1st for Tkachuk.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If a player like Kyrou was on the table then I think they would have gone that route. Necas looks way better in hindsight because he broke out last year but at the time it would have been a 40pt guy and a 1st for Tkachuk.

And who knows if Necas breaks out like that in Calgary. Chances are he has the same issues as Huberdeau under Sutter.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And who knows if Necas breaks out like that in Calgary. Chances are he has the same issues and Huberdeau under Sutter.

Yep, 100% this, and the fan base would be even more upset with the trade after this past season than the Florida one.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And who knows if Necas breaks out like that in Calgary. Chances are he has the same issues as Huberdeau under Sutter.

100%. And that goes both ways - does Tkachuk have an MVP-type season if stays in Calgary? Probably not.


The issue last year wasn't that they didn't get a good return on the trade (they got a fantastic return!), the issue was that the team had a horrible year, and played under a dark cloud the entire season. Blaming the trade for that completely misses the mark.

[868904]

Treliving made a great deal.

The value was there. He could have traded Huberdeau and Weegar each for a 1st and a prospect right away and the Flames would have ended up with 3 first round picks and 3 prospects, that's a hell of a haul.

But everyone in the organization wanted to win now.

Ownership wanted to win now.

Sutter wanted to win now.

The players wanted to win now.

And with what we know about Treliving wanting his dream Maple Leafs job, HE wanted to win now too. It's clear to me that his ideal outcome would have been to win the Cup and then bolt for the Leafs GM job.

[Bonded]

Yup, it is really the decision tree after the trade that is questionable but is what it is. Most egregious was paying a first to dump Monahan in order to sign Kadri.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

There almost certainly would not have been a better deal under any circumstances. I get that fans are disappointed by the Flames losing Tkachuk, but they got an excellent deal for him with Florida, period. There is no reason to second-guess what happened.

There are regular contributors on this forum who still lose sleep about Byron being placed on waivers. The Tkachuk for Weegar/Hubudreau et al trade will be talked about here for...a while.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

There are regular contributors on this forum who still lose sleep about Byron being placed on waivers. The Tkachuk for Weegar/Hubudreau et al trade will be talked about here for...a while.

Touché.

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[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If a player like Kyrou was on the table then I think they would have gone that route. Necas looks way better in hindsight because he broke out last year but at the time it would have been a 40pt guy and a 1st for Tkachuk.

Maybe. But I do wonder how much they actually pursued other deals or negotiations. From a Blues perspective, Tkachuk is a clear upgrade on Kyrou so that more than makes sense for them. Carolina is knocked for not having a true superstar. Tkachuk could have helped them big time in that area. I don't think a deal around Necas and Jarvis is unrealistic considering both were career high 40 pts players and Tkachuk just put up over 100pts. Teams might have low balled and Florida made a strong offer and Brad then zeroed in on that deal. I do wonder if he even tried to use the Florida deal as leverage to renegotiate with other teams. I think the organization felt a bit embarrassed and resentful with Gaudreau and Tkachuk bolting, and they were dead set on not letting that take down the team, and the Florida deal probably did address that best in the present.