Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Liberals are still firmly in the centre. Nothing they've done is a far left swing.

When you're far right anything to the left of you looks far left.

You can make a reasonable argument that the Liberals are incompetent and corrupt but I don't think you can argue that they're far-left.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

https://apnews.com/article/india-can...0bd53b03ccbdf2

The fallout continues from Justin's inability to back up his incendiary words with actual facts.

Just a Diplomacy 101 refresher for people who may have forgotten how the public display of evidence is crucial when making accusations against alleged assassins of foreign governments to help avoid unnecessary geopolitical blow back.

Canadas Remarkably Slapdash Assassination Accusation

Compare the whole saga to 2018, when Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan publicly accused Saudi Arabia of ordering the murder and dismemberment of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in their Istanbul embassy.

In a lengthy Washington Post op-ed penned one month after the killing, Erdoğan laid out his case against the Saudis: Turkish investigators had audio from inside the embassy as well as surveillance footage showing the movements of Khashoggi and the alleged perpetrators just before the killing
Most notably, Khashoggi’s body remained missing and Saudi officials could not explain to their Turkish counterparts why that was.

And unlike the recent Canadian allegations, Erdoğan was careful to avoid directly accusing Saudi Arabia’s ruler, implying that it could have been the actions of rogue underlings.
“I do not believe for a second that King Salman, the custodian of the holy mosques, ordered the hit on Khashoggi,” he wrote. “Therefore, I have no reason to believe that his murder reflected Saudi Arabia’s official policy.”




Caution and investigative rigour would also define a 2010 incident where the United Arab Emirates provided evidence that an Israeli hit squad had assassinated Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel room.

Within weeks of the killing, Dubai Police Chief Lt. Gen. Dahi Khalfan Tamim convened a pivotal press conference providing photographs of all 11 suspects believed to have participated in the murder of al-Mabhouh. The Dubai police also circulated an annotated video spliced together from surveillance footage showing the suspects changing into disguises, stalking al-Mabhouh and ultimately sending a hit team into al-Mabhouh’s room to await his arrival.

All 11 had entered Dubai on false passports, the police announced.





Here again, despite the torrent of supporting evidence — and Israel’s lengthy history of organizing exactly these types of foreign assassinations — the UAE did not directly implicate the Israeli government. Tamim hinted only that “leaders of certain countries gave orders to their intelligence agents to kill” al-Mabhouh.

There are more examples in the article including the polonium poisioning of Putin critic Litvinenko, and another Israeli killing of an innocent waiter in 1973 Lilllehammer that their intelligence agencies got wrong.

The continued lack of any evidence beyond Justins word is concerning and is starting to reek of political posturing.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/new...972891?cmp=rss

Nice, let's see how this plays out...If they do start getting purchase I wonder who is more negatively affected by this? If it is straight centre, I could see an opportunity for them to take some Conservative seats in Western cities where there is still little hope of Liberal progress, and Canadians not interested in Pierre's toxic political methods might support them enough to get seats.

And those out east sick of the Liberals, but not willing to vote for a Bitcoin Bro would be happy for another choice.

I have to wonder if this party and specifically the leadership race is something that Nenshi would be interested in

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I have to wonder if this party and specifically the leadership race is something that Nenshi would be interested in

Getting Nenshi into federal politics would get instantly get Ontario's and Quebec's attention.

[Firebot]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...hardeep-singh/

“Over the past number of weeks, Canadian security agencies have been actively pursuing credible allegations of a potential link between agents of the government of India and the killing of a Canadian citizen, Hardeep Singh Nijjar,” Mr. Trudeau said.

And that has been that: no elaboration on the provenance of those credible allegations, and no explanation of that potential link. Canadians (including the opposition parties) remain in the dark about what Ottawa believes led to Mr. Nijjar’s murder, beyond the supposition that his slaying is connected to his activities in support of the Khalistan separatism movement that is vehemently opposed by the Indian government.

Ottawa’s belief that India played a role in Mr. Nijjar‘s shooting in the parking lot of a Sikh temple in Surrey, B.C., clearly goes much further than mere suspicion. The government has already taken significant action. Mr. Trudeau said he raised the matter directly with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi at last week’s G20 meeting. Canada also conveyed its concerns to senior Indian intelligence officials. Our allies, including the United States, Britain and Australia, have been briefed. Canada has expelled a senior Indian diplomat, frozen trade talks with India and postponed a federal trade mission.

Yet Mr. Trudeau has not spelled out to the nation exactly what has been uncovered that compelled the government to take those steps, and to ignite a serious – perhaps enduring – diplomatic crisis with India. The Prime Minister needs to lay out his case, immediately, to bolster support for the government’s actions both at home and abroad.

The information so far is the government made this reveal as a result of being advised by a media source (assuming the Globe and Mail) that a story was being created about the investigation of India state ties to the murder of Nijjar, which would have forced the federal government to react and respond to allegations.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...jjar-1.6971605

Canada's minister of emergency preparedness says the prime minister publicly implicated India in the murder of a Canadian citizen because he learned the story was going to come out in the media.

Why not wait until after the RCMP has finished its investigation? Why did the prime minister come out with what he said before that?

It was important for the prime minister to make the statement that he did because some information was going to ... come out within the media.

The safety of Canadians is very important and making sure that they have the accurate information. And that's one of the reasons why the prime minister went out with this statement.

I can assure you that the decision for the prime minister to go out … was done with the full consultation of the appropriate agencies involved.

And, again, we would prefer not to have to come out, but because if there were stories that were going to be coming out, it's important for the prime minister to make it very clear what is taking place based on, you know, the amount of information that could be provided.

Making sure to give calm to Canadians is an absolute priority for us. And this is one of the reasons why the prime minister went out, is to give confidence and calm to Canadians — and just in case somebody is trying to use certain information to divide Canadians, which we have seen many times in the past.

And considering its current failings with Chinese foreign interference it appears that the Liberals were not willing to take the brunt of another story, especially one with such diplomatic consequences. As such they made the revelation...ahead of the completion of any investigation.

I don't doubt that the murder was state sponsored and the conclusion will likely be correct.

I won't get into the 2017 claims, this is something that would fall into the scope of the foreign interference public inquiry, something that should be of upmost importance to our federal government and party in power in ensuring the integrity of providing security to Canadians.

Was Trudeau right in calling out India publicly right now? Well we don't know since the investigation has not completed and no information has been provided. What we do know is it was done ahead of a media storm reporting on the investigation, and the timing was changed as a result.

Hopefully Trudeau can clarify on his reasoning for announcing it ahead of the completion of the investigation.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I have to wonder if this party and specifically the leadership race is something that Nenshi would be interested in

It would be nice if they could gain some traction. Hopefully they can accumulate some compelling politicians that are on the same page. I hate that our political options are far left, far right, and crazy.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It would be nice if they could gain some traction. Hopefully they can accumulate some compelling politicians that are on the same page. I hate that our political options are far left, far right, and crazy.

inb4 they just re-tread with someone like ####in MacKay and it goes absolutely nowhere

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

The fallout continues from Justin's inability to back up his incendiary words with actual facts.

Just a Diplomacy 101 refresher for people who may have forgotten how the public display of evidence is crucial when making accusations against alleged assassins of foreign governments to help avoid unnecessary geopolitical blow back.

Canadas Remarkably Slapdash Assassination Accusation

There are more examples in the article including the polonium poisioning of Putin critic Litvinenko, and another Israeli killing of an innocent waiter in 1973 Lilllehammer that their intelligence agencies got wrong.

The continued lack of any evidence beyond Justins word is concerning and is starting to reek of political posturing.

Well the American State Department said they support the investigation and encouraged India to participate. So I guess they are also doing some political posturing for Justin.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well the American State Department said they support the investigation and encouraged India to participate. So I guess they are also doing some political posturing for Justin.

That would be diplomatic-speak for "why oh why would you accuse India of involvement with this assassination before the investigation is complete and you can't share any evidence?!"

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame

That would be diplomatic-speak for "why oh why would you accuse India of involvement with this assassination before the investigation is complete and you can't share any evidence?!"

Because the media was about to break it. If the media broke the story first, people would be asking "why oh why" didn't the news come from Trudeau first. I don't think the people criticizing the government would be going any easier on him if the Globe and Mail were the ones coming out and making the accusation.

Edit: I am not a fan of Trudeau, but I don't think the criticism is warranted in this particular situation. If it turns out that they don't have hard evidence, then that would be different. Having evidence but not making it public is fair though IMO. Without knowing at this point, the criticism comes across as team politics.

[Fuzz]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...973981?cmp=rss

Apparently AB is owed $334-billion, over half the value of CPP to transfer.

#### right off, we are Canadians first. This is Canadian money, not Alberta. WTF do these muppets not get about this?

[Looch City]

You forget, this is actually OUR money that we pay in equalization payments to the rest of Canada (And those damn French).

We should be in charge of OUR money.

And by “we” I mean a select few rich white folk that are close friends and/or members of the UCP and loyal to regent Queen Smith.

[FunkMasterFlame]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Because the media was about to break it. If the media broke the story first, people would be asking "why oh why" didn't the news come from Trudeau first. I don't think the people criticizing the government would be going any easier on him if the Globe and Mail were the ones coming out and making the accusation.

Edit: I am not a fan of Trudeau, but I don't think the criticism is warranted in this particular situation. If it turns out that they don't have hard evidence, then that would be different. Having evidence but not making it public is fair though IMO. Without knowing at this point, the criticism comes across as team politics.

I think having the media break the accusation would have at least allowed Justin to save diplomatic-face.

Instead of our head of state directly accusing an ally of perpetrating an assassination on our soil he could have stayed at arms-length from the accusations and maintained the "we will wait for the investigation to be complete" line that our other allies are already taking, and he could have avoided the immediate and ongoing backlash from an angry India. International diplomacy is an art, and Justin ain't no Picasso.

I also really really hope that Justin had his ducks in a row before opening his mouth. We shall see.

[Torture]

In what world would we be entitled to 53% of CPP assets if we left and formed our own plan.
We're 10% of the population. Sure, maybe we contribute more/have higher earnings/etc so maybe that pushes us up to something like 15%, or let's go crazy and double it to say 20%....but FIFTY THREE PERCENT?
Laughable.

[Fuzz]

Oh ####, they are talking about investing all this money in Alberta...which means oil...which will eventually fade away...madness.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Looch City

You forget, this is actually OUR money that we pay in equalization payments to the rest of Canada (And those damn French).

We should be in charge of OUR money.

And by “we” I mean a select few rich white folk that are close friends and/or members of the UCP and loyal to regent Queen Smith.

Originally Posted by Torture

In what world would we be entitled to 53% of CPP assets if we left and formed our own plan.
We're 10% of the population. Sure, maybe we contribute more/have higher earnings/etc so maybe that pushes us up to something like 15%, or let's go crazy and double it to say 20%....but FIFTY THREE PERCENT?
Laughable.

I think that they're getting to that figure with the contributions and the growth on those contributions over the past 57 years. You know...CPPIB has invested the funds prudently and we no longer want to be a part of that, but we still want our cut from the returns sort of thing.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that they're getting to that figure with the contributions and the growth on those contributions over the past 57 years. You know...CPPIB has invested the funds prudently and we no longer want to be a part of that, but we still want our cut from the returns sort of thing.

Sure, but if every province said "I want to leave just like Alberta and I'll take the same math" you'd apparently be at 9x the assets of the entire plan.

Ontario and Alberta alone leaving based on this math would be >100% of assets. It's lunacy and doesn't even withstand the most minimal of scrutiny.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Torture

Sure, but if every province said "I want to leave just like Alberta and I'll take the same math" you'd apparently be at 9x the assets of the entire plan.

Ontario and Alberta alone leaving based on this math would be >100% of assets. It's lunacy and doesn't even withstand the most minimal of scrutiny.

Oh, I'm not trying to defend this, and I think it's ridiculous. Just pointing out how they arrive at that figure. But, what we're going to see is a bunch of outrageous figures to try to convince people that we're getting shafted and could do so much better on our own. It's entirely to be expected.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that they're getting to that figure with the contributions and the growth on those contributions over the past 57 years. You know...CPPIB has invested the funds prudently and we no longer want to be a part of that, but we still want our cut from the returns sort of thing.

Yup.

he report estimates that Alberta should be entitled to a $334-billion asset transfer from the CPP in 2027. This is how much Albertans have contributed to the CPP minus how much they have received in benefits since the start of the CPP in 1966, plus investment earnings on that amount. With this large pool of money, an Alberta Pension Plan would have a significant financial backstop to cover benefit payments into the future.

https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?x...ACB795209B26BF


I'd love to see the official wording of the CPP exit, becuase it makes no sense.

[opendoor]

It's sort of like Quebec thinking they could separate without being responsible for any of the national debt. If Alberta's assets are indeed 53% of the current total assets, then that means there is a large unfunded liability (or a lower present value to account for future growth). And Alberta is responsible for just like the rest of the country, so the amount they get should be reduced commensurately.