American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Curious since this is apparently only an American problem: does any country that elects officials to public office have an upper age limit?

This thread discusses a few countries, but it doesn't look like it is common.


https://politics.stackexchange.com/q...-or-candidates

[GirlySports]

France considered a max age of 70 for national assembly members but then someone argued, "But the de Gaulle wouldn't have gotten a 2nd term!" and that ended that.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by photon

An age limit is better than term limits.. the shorter the term limits the more powerful lobbyists and non-elected people the elected officials become as they get depended on more since they're the ones who understand how things work.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that as well. You want senators who are in for the long term best interest. Too much of politics is about having to show quick wins. It's a positive to have senators who still want to have a job long after a crazy president is gone.

The parties themselves should do more to try to self police senators getting into the ridiculous age range.

I don't know what you do to stop voters from voting in the old guys in primaries and such. It sure would have been nice if Biden had picked a more popular and feasible VP that he could have handed the reigns to for 2024.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that as well. You want senators who are in for the long term best interest. Too much of politics is about having to show quick wins. It's a positive to have senators who still want to have a job long after a crazy president is gone.

The parties themselves should do more to try to self police senators getting into the ridiculous age range.

I don't know what you do to stop voters from voting in the old guys in primaries and such. It sure would have been nice if Biden had picked a more popular and feasible VP that he could have handed the reigns to for 2024.

If you can't get what you want done in two terms, then the thing you want probably isnt that important.

Term limits need to be something implemented at every level of government. Even if it just means you have to take a term off in between at that level of government. Could create a perfect feeder system for various levels of government or administration.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

If you can't get what you want done in two terms, then the thing you want probably isnt that important.

Term limits need to be something implemented at every level of government. Even if it just means you have to take a term off in between at that level of government. Could create a perfect feeder system for various levels of government or administration.

Agree. Like air hosties...it's not a career...it's a way to earn a living and see the world...two terms is plenty.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

If you can't get what you want done in two terms, then the thing you want probably isnt that important.

That statement seems particularly terrible way to look at things. We should all want a government who considers the long term benefits and consequences to their actions. We're not going to solve climate change, or US health care in 8 years, does that mean they are not important and should be given up on?

If we pretend there was some method to Trump's madness, then we could make a case that cutting taxes (without corresponding spending cuts) in an already over-heated economy was going to have eventual consequences. If COVID didn't happen, then the economy would have been looking all rosy going into 2020, which is the last election he had to worry about. Who cares if there was a ticking time bomb ready to go off late in his second term, or whoever was left with the mess in 2024?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

That statement seems particularly terrible way to look at things. We should all want a government who considers the long term benefits and consequences to their actions. We're not going to solve climate change, or US health care in 8 years, does that mean they are not important and should be given up on?

If we pretend there was some method to Trump's madness, then we could make a case that cutting taxes (without corresponding spending cuts) in an already over-heated economy was going to have eventual consequences. If COVID didn't happen, then the economy would have been looking all rosy going into 2020, which is the last election he had to worry about. Who cares if there was a ticking time bomb ready to go off late in his second term, or whoever was left with the mess in 2024?

You can have an over arching affect on policy in two terms, if you have the drive and the ability to do it. Without term limits, career politicians stick to the party line and make piss poor decisions to keep their seats and sell their souls.

Again this is just my opinion of course, but I do believe that if you are doing politics for the right reason, you can accomplish what you need to, or at least start to affect policy in a manner that meets your strategic goals in 8 years. And if you can't, your goals, aims or motivations probably aren't in the right place.

Once you realize you have a limited time frame to start to accomplish what you got into it for, you work to those goals. I work with plenty of politicians who do sweet F all but collect a paycheque, as long as they toe the party line and appeal to their base.

If a person becomes truly passionate about government, they can join the administration.

[driveway]

There are a lot of good arguments against term limits:
Political Science Doesn't Like Term Limits
Five Reasons to Oppose Term Limits
Term Limits Won't Clean Up Congress


Worth pointing out, these sources are all center-left.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by driveway

There are a lot of good arguments against term limits:
Political Science Doesn't Like Term Limits
Five Reasons to Oppose Term Limits
Term Limits Won't Clean Up Congress


Worth pointing out, these sources are all center-left.

Good articles. Seem to be a lot of conjecture in there thought and not really any hard evidence except in the first article. Maybe because of the lack of much historical evidence.

[driveway]

The Brookings article links to these three studies:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs...44000100100404

We find strong consensus among these lobbyists that term limits have caused the state political influence structure to shift away from the legislature and toward the governor, administrative agencies, and interest groups.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...6298006X201742

We characterize the biggest impact on behavior and priorities as a “Burkean shift,” whereby term-limited legislators become less beholden to the constituents in their geographical districts and more attentive to other concerns.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...2.2010.00004.x

The inclusion of controls for the direct and moderating effect of actual institutional power suggests some significant extensions of previous findings regarding the institutional effects of term limits.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by driveway

The Brookings article links to these three studies:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs...44000100100404




https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...6298006X201742



https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...2.2010.00004.x

Paywalled, so I am not gonna go ahead and pay to try to carry on the conversation, but I do appreciate the convo!

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

If you can't get what you want done in two terms, then the thing you want probably isnt that important.

Term limits need to be something implemented at every level of government. Even if it just means you have to take a term off in between at that level of government. Could create a perfect feeder system for various levels of government or administration.

I don’t know. A man like John McCain served honourably, and it was a good thing there was a senior statesman around like him. There are more examples.

The issue is that a few are hanging on way, way too long and their own parties won’t even deal with it. Plus some of these senate seats are basically a lock and you could almost be a corpse and still win. The voters should be the ones dealing with this. I always say - the voters get the government they deserve. They have the power to fix this.

[FireGilbert]

A criticism of the POTUS term limit is being a 2nd term lame duck because the house can just wait around for the next guy. Wouldn't be an issue if the reps and senate had term limits too.

Also, one of my political gear grinders is that rusted on house and senate seats are basically life time appointments for party sycophants. Term limits solve this.

[PsYcNeT]

Getting rid of term limits seems less important than abolishing say, SuperPACs and the like.

Cart before the horse etc.

EDIT: lol thanks for warning anyone who cares, Mitt

https://twitter.com/user/status/1702052075171967355

[TheIronMaiden]

Mitch would only reply if the corporations pulling his puppet strings told him to.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Or perhaps he had a prolonged freeze and wasn't able to act on the information.

See, that's the reason why we need age limits!
/s

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Mitch would only reply if the corporations pulling his puppet strings told him to.

Mitch couldn't reply, he was in need of a reboot before he could apply his security updates.

[Dion]

Angry and frustrated, McCarthy challenges right-flank colleagues to try to oust him from his post

If you’re going to do it, go ahead and try, McCarthy told the Republicans behind closed doors.

“File the f——- motion,” McCarthy said, using a profanity for emphasis, according to those in the private meeting.

With a government shutdown looming, McCarthy is confronting the same stubborn problem that has driven Republicans before him from the speaker’s job — trying to lead a ruptured GOP majority that's split between what’s left of the traditional party and a harder-right element largely allied with former President Donald Trump.

Even his decision to launch an impeachment inquiry against President Joe Biden did little this week to appease the demands of the Freedom Caucus and others as they threaten to shut down the government in pursuit of deep spending cuts or move to a motion to oust him from office.

“I showed frustration in here because I am frustrated with some people in the conference,” McCarthy said after the meeting in the Capitol basement as lawmakers were wrapping up for the week.

“But when we come back, we’re going to get this done. Nobody wins in a government shutdown.”

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...5877978f&ei=53

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

I don’t know. A man like John McCain served honourably, and it was a good thing there was a senior statesman around like him. There are more examples.

The issue is that a few are hanging on way, way too long and their own parties won’t even deal with it. Plus some of these senate seats are basically a lock and you could almost be a corpse and still win. The voters should be the ones dealing with this. I always say - the voters get the government they deserve. They have the power to fix this.

Member that time John McCain was running for President against Obama and that confused, angry, old woman with crazy hair who watched Fox News all day grabbed the mike and said “Obama is an Arab!”

And John took the mike back and softly said “No he isn’t, he’s a great citizen and family man who I happen to disagree with.”

https://youtu.be/jrnRU3ocIH4?si=CYiY4GxygXIrPyEw

Who eould have thought that 15 years later it would be the crazy haired old loon running the GOP instead of John?

RIP Mr. McCain

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

A criticism of the POTUS term limit is being a 2nd term lame duck because the house can just wait around for the next guy. Wouldn't be an issue if the reps and senate had term limits too.

Also, one of my political gear grinders is that rusted on house and senate seats are basically life time appointments for party sycophants. Term limits solve this.

Other issue is on foreign affairs. Nobody internationally has any idea what the States want, ever.

In Iran deal out. Friends with Russia, not. In on Pacific trade, out. Friends with Saudis, not friends. Work with European allies, don’t. They flip flop more than any dynasty in history.