2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd have to do some digging ... but I don't think they've lost many UFAs to nothing over the years, at least of significance.

They traded Iginla and Bouwmeester in the last rebuild (Bouwmeester early). Giordano reupped and was retained. Tkachuk they moved a year early to avoid losing him.

Gaudreau for sure, Brodie out, but Tanev in was a wash ... but have there been many others creating a "schtick"?

I’d like to add, how many other teams also lose UFA’s as their ‘Schtick’? Every single team in the league, or just 95% of them?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am probably one of the few that supported that decision by Burke. A lot of people were pushing the idea that it didn't matter what we got, as long as we got something. I think that is a terrible way to manage assets. The Flames had a reputation of being an easy target to get assets for cheap and Burke wanted to stop the bleeding and change that reputation, and I don't blame him. There were probably some playoff teams that were kicking themselves for not offering more and will hopefully think twice next time.

100%

It wasn't just that the returns were weak, it was that the Flames (Feaster) had the reputation of being a pushover. You simply can't allow that, and holding firm to address that was far more valuable than the middling return Burke said no to.

You have to manage the big picture, as well as the day to day operations.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

100%

It wasn't just that the returns were weak, it was that the Flames (Feaster) had the reputation of being a pushover. You simply can't allow that, and holding firm to address that was far more valuable than the middling return Burke said no to.

You have to manage the big picture, as well as the day to day operations.

Didn't we receive an overpay (2nd rounder) for Berra the following year because Burke did this? Or the same year?

[stemit14]

This has to be the most stringent offseason I can ever remember… from all teams. Very few trades and very few big contracts handed out. No trades in the first round at the draft.

Very bad luck for offseason conditions like that to occur when the flames are prepared to move quality players whose contracts aren’t even that high for what they bring.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but to think how ahead the flames could be now if they fully committed to a rebuild last offseason going into the Bedard draft. Could have had at least 4 first round picks in the 2023 draft plus some A-level prospects if they decided to trade Tkachuk/Lindholm/Backlund/Hanifin/Toffoli for futures. And it’s likely their own pick would have been in the top ten. They also would not have signed Kadri so they would have another pick in 2024/2025 because Monahan would not have needed to be traded.

Obviously it’s crying over spilled milk. I was prepared to enter a rebuild when a Gaudreau left and Tkachuk wanted out. When the Tkachuk trade ended up being a re-tool trade for Huberdeau and Weegar I was excited for the season and thought we could still go for it.

Who knows what the season will bring I guess. Seems like the flames usually do better when they are written off by most people. They could surprise a lot of teams with bounce-backs from a few guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Eh, I agree it was just the first one that came to mind other than Gaudreau and Brodie

Unless we count Gudbranson, which I don't. Or Lucic.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Didn't we receive an overpay (2nd rounder) for Berra the following year because Burke did this? Or the same year?

Hard to say it was an overpay - Berra had a good year, and somebody was willing to give up a 2nd to get him. But I think it's fair to claim that offers returned to normal afterwards (the problem was eliminated)

[Macindoc]

Stemit, you seem to appreciate that everything looks different in hindsight. Following the Flames' excellent regular season performance in the previous season, last year's huge dip in performance would have been hard to anticipate. I thought there would be a moderate drop from Tkachuk's performance to Kadri's, but I expected the Gaudreau-Huberdeau swap to be a wash and for some of the younger players to add some energy, speed, and scoring to the roster. Unfortunately, Sutter went in a different direction by giving more ice time to aging vets, Kylington was lost for the season, Markstrom struggled like never before, and things soured in the dressing room, resulting in 90% of the roster having near career-worst seasons in spite of the fact that few of them were at the age at which that would be expected.


I think that there is a high probability that this year's team will be much closer to the 2021-2022 edition of the team than it will be to last year's version in terms of performance. If, on the other hand, the wheels fall off, then it will be clear that the wrong decisions were made last summer. Still, I don't think anyone was realistically predicting a year ago that the whole team would collectively fall off a cliff as they did.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by stemit14

This has to be the most stringent offseason I can ever remember… from all teams. Very few trades and very few big contracts handed out. No trades in the first round at the draft.

Very bad luck for offseason conditions like that to occur when the flames are prepared to move quality players whose contracts aren’t even that high for what they bring.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but to think how ahead the flames could be now if they fully committed to a rebuild last offseason going into the Bedard draft. Could have had at least 4 first round picks in the 2023 draft plus some A-level prospects if they decided to trade Tkachuk/Lindholm/Backlund/Hanifin/Toffoli for futures. And it’s likely their own pick would have been in the top ten. They also would not have signed Kadri so they would have another pick in 2024/2025 because Monahan would not have needed to be traded.

Obviously it’s crying over spilled milk. I was prepared to enter a rebuild when a Gaudreau left and Tkachuk wanted out. When the Tkachuk trade ended up being a re-tool trade for Huberdeau and Weegar I was excited for the season and thought we could still go for it.

Who knows what the season will bring I guess. Seems like the flames usually do better when they are written off by most people. They could surprise a lot of teams with bounce-backs from a few guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least four???

How? From who? In any given year there are only so many first round picks available. It’s market economics, is it not? If the Flames flooded to market with all those players, your bargaining position is actually weakened.

As an example, both Chykrum and Hronek went for first round picks last year. Which other team would have offered up a first for, say, Hanifin? You’re likely looking at a pool of 5, maybe?

To do that an additional 3 times seems like a pipe dream. There were other players on the market and the more players there are on the market with a limited buying pool, the less return you’re going to get. Factor in a flat cap and one of the best/deepest drafts in recent memory, the scenario you’re laying out seems entirely unrealistic.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by TOfan

At least four???

How? From who? In any given year there are only so many first round picks available. It’s market economics, is it not? If the Flames flooded to market with all those players, your bargaining position is actually weakened.

As an example, both Chykrum and Hronek went for first round picks last year. Which other team would have offered up a first for, say, Hanifin? You’re likely looking at a pool of 5, maybe?

To do that an additional 3 times seems like a pipe dream. There were other players on the market and the more players there are on the market with a limited buying pool, the less return you’re going to get. Factor in a flat cap and one of the best/deepest drafts in recent memory, the scenario you’re laying out seems entirely unrealistic.

Good point. Each piece traded would have had a diminishing market and return.

[Sec214]

[Bingo Jr.]

What's going on at OJ's Mr. 214?

[bax]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Hard to say it was an overpay - Berra had a good year, and somebody was willing to give up a 2nd to get him. But I think it's fair to claim that offers returned to normal afterwards (the problem was eliminated)

Berra was absolutely an overpay. He was an undrafted goalie with 29 games of NHL experience and a sub 900 save percentage.

[Britflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd have to do some digging ... but I don't think they've lost many UFAs to nothing over the years, at least of significance.

They traded Iginla and Bouwmeester in the last rebuild (Bouwmeester early). Giordano reupped and was retained. Tkachuk they moved a year early to avoid losing him.

Gaudreau for sure, Brodie out, but Tanev in was a wash ... but have there been many others creating a "schtick"?

Giving up on a certain goalie to Anaheim, who became star, trading a centre who became a star for nothing and then firing the coach, giving up on a forward who then went on and became a superstar who effectively stopped us winning the Stanley cup in 2004, finding a coach who turned out to be an extremely unpleasant person, losing a superstar for nothing and goodness knows what is going to happen this season. It’s Calgary Shtick to mess up. That’s not saying other teams don’t have the same problems but if their is not some real changing of well it’s not luck so let’s call it acumen then the Flames could be majorly stuffed for the next 8 years.

[Murph]

Originally Posted by Sec214

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

Giving up on a certain goalie to Anaheim, who became star, trading a centre who became a star for nothing and then firing the coach, giving up on a forward who then went on and became a superstar who effectively stopped us winning the Stanley cup in 2004, finding a coach who turned out to be an extremely unpleasant person, losing a superstar for nothing and goodness knows what is going to happen this season. It’s Calgary Shtick to mess up. That’s not saying other teams don’t have the same problems but if their is not some real changing of well it’s not luck so let’s call it acumen then the Flames could be majorly stuffed for the next 8 years.

So you're moving the schtick from letting guys walk for nothing to making poor trades?

[genetic_phreek]

What's worse? Losing a UFA for nothing or losing a trade with the pending UFA?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

At least four???

How? From who? In any given year there are only so many first round picks available. It’s market economics, is it not? If the Flames flooded to market with all those players, your bargaining position is actually weakened.

As an example, both Chykrum and Hronek went for first round picks last year. Which other team would have offered up a first for, say, Hanifin? You’re likely looking at a pool of 5, maybe?

To do that an additional 3 times seems like a pipe dream. There were other players on the market and the more players there are on the market with a limited buying pool, the less return you’re going to get. Factor in a flat cap and one of the best/deepest drafts in recent memory, the scenario you’re laying out seems entirely unrealistic.

St Louis almost lived the pipe dream by grabbing three first round picks (along with a second, third and two fourths). So there was the opportunity to dream in that deep draft.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by bax

Berra was absolutely an overpay. He was an undrafted goalie with 29 games of NHL experience and a sub 900 save percentage.

He was drafted (4th round by St. Louis).

Definitely an overpay though when the Flames traded him. He was considered a half-decent goalie prospect in St. Louis' system at one point though.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by TOfan

At least four???

How? From who? In any given year there are only so many first round picks available. It’s market economics, is it not? If the Flames flooded to market with all those players, your bargaining position is actually weakened.

As an example, both Chykrum and Hronek went for first round picks last year. Which other team would have offered up a first for, say, Hanifin? You’re likely looking at a pool of 5, maybe?

To do that an additional 3 times seems like a pipe dream. There were other players on the market and the more players there are on the market with a limited buying pool, the less return you’re going to get. Factor in a flat cap and one of the best/deepest drafts in recent memory, the scenario you’re laying out seems entirely unrealistic.

I assume Tkachuk, Lindholm, and Hanifin each would have returned a first round pick. I don’t think that’s unreasonable to think since they all were coming off of career years. There was a rumoured offer for Tkachuk that was more built on futures that I assume included a 2023 first round pick. Lindholm and Hanifin would have had two years left on their contracts on very reasonable deals so I think they would have returned first round picks as well. Those three trades plus the flames’ own first rounder makes 4 first round picks. You’re right that it does not always work that way due to the market changing.

And I agree things could be a lot better this year. All I meant was that if there was a time to commit to a full rebuild, last year would have been ideal. There was no way of knowing at the time that everything that could go wrong for the flames last season would go wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

St Louis almost lived the pipe dream by grabbing three first round picks (along with a second, third and two fourths). So there was the opportunity to dream in that deep draft.

St Louis grabbed two additional 1st round picks, not three. 10th OA was their own.

But that’s partly my point. The Flames would had to have players other teams wanted more than ROR, Barbashev, and Tarasenko. (I think this were the key pieces they moved).