2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Freddy]

Negative posters just love stewing in each other’s negativity and then project it all as a crisis of organizational failure.

The Flames have been a better than average team for over a decade with legit opportunities to be great, and this year look to be average at worst.

I personally think Conroy injects a massive dose of enthusiasm to the organization and Huska has the hockey IQ to strategize with the evolution of the game. And the organization has the most dominant goalie not already in the NHL.

The future is not as bleak as the negative Nancy’s would have you believe.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

The Athletic has an article about front office confidence rankings based on fans' opinions and the Flames rank 31 out of 32, with only the islanders being ranked lower. Hard to argue with the results.
Longterm vision, lack of clarity with team direction and the situation with upcoming UFAs are cited as the main reasons for the fanbase's lack of confidence. They do however note that Conroy's patience with making a move may be the best course for the franchise

here it is



1. NJD
2. CAR
3. TBL
14. MTL
17. OTT
20. EDM
27. TOR
28. WPG
30.VAN
31. CGY

[Lanny_McDonald]

I don't disagree with the ranking of the front office. Rookie GM that had seven free agents to deal with prior to camp and still has six left unresolved. Seems like a reason to have concerns about the direction of the leadership group.

On the future, this is something that remains fluid and is evaluated over a number of years. The Flames immediate future is way better than some are saying. If they can sign Lindholm and get performances out of the players that being paid to be top end, they could be quite good. A bounce back from Markstrom, Huberdeau, and Lindholm and the Flames are a playoff team. If we see Kadri's GAF return to expected levels we're really going to see improvement. The return of Kylington is found money. If we see Wolf, Pelletier, Coronato, Zary, Duehr, and Ruzicka all earn spots on the team, it means we're way better than we were last season. The immediate future is not that bleak.

Where we run into a futures problem is the gap in the pipeline that is going to exist in two years. We're going to feel the lack of quality prospects as some of the rookies from this year's team look for that second contract and bump some of the middle talent off the roster. You need that constant flow of bodies to control the cap and the Flames have a two year gap they are going to have to weather. That puts the longer-term future in question. Fortunately they had what appears to be a bumper draft this year and maybe a couple players step up and become NHLers quicker than anticipated. The futures game is very fluid and the Flames have some air bubbles in their pipeline to deal with.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Negative posters just love stewing in each other’s negativity and then project it all as a crisis of organizational failure.

The Flames have been a better than average team for over a decade with legit opportunities to be great, and this year look to be average at worst.

I personally think Conroy injects a massive dose of enthusiasm to the organization and Huska has the hockey IQ to strategize with the evolution of the game. And the organization has the most dominant goalie not already in the NHL.

The future is not as bleak as the negative Nancy’s would have you believe.

I mean, you inadvertently summed up middling pretty nicely.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Robbob

IMO it is a little early to grade or make a definitive call on the front office. I am glad they are holding their ground on the bigger assets and not making a knee jerk decision. I know it may be bad for fan boards and media that the GMs are playing a game of chicken, but in this market that is what needs to be done to get value for the asset you are trading.

I think once these dog days of summer are over, and the kids play in Penticton, that there will be something more positive to talk about. Or generally just something to talk about that will shift the focus away for a bit.

It's way too early to judge the current regime. Any grades should reflect the previous regime more than Conroy. He was left handcuffed and being patient is the only thing he can do at this point.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

here it is



1. NJD
2. CAR
3. TBL
14. MTL
17. OTT
20. EDM
27. TOR
28. WPG
30.VAN
31. CGY

I'm not entirely clear on what is this survey's value.



I find it interesting that pretty much all the Canadian teams are near the bottom half of the league, with only Ottawa and Montreal above the halfway point. Even Edmonton and Toronto who have been in the playoffs multiple years in a row are low. So, what value is this survey?



Regarding the Flames, it is interesting that the fan base evaluation is markedly lower than the team's actual results in the standings, suggesting that there are more than a few overly negative responses. This team is not the 31st worst team in the league by any metric, except overly catastrophizing fandom.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

I'm not entirely clear on what is this survey's value.



I find it interesting that pretty much all the Canadian teams are near the bottom half of the league, with only Ottawa and Montreal above the halfway point. Even Edmonton and Toronto who have been in the playoffs multiple years in a row are low. So, what value is this survey?



Regarding the Flames, it is interesting that the fan base evaluation is markedly lower than the team's actual results in the standings, suggesting that there are more than a few overly negative responses. This team is not the 31st worst team in the league by any metric, except overly catastrophizing fandom.

I suspect Canadian and/or Flames fans have higher expectations and goals for a team and therefore have bigger negative reactions to bad results.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I suspect Canadian and/or Flames fans have higher expectations and goals for a team and therefore have bigger negative reactions to bad results.

I agree with that suspicion. Still makes me wonder about the value of such surveys to a sports reporter like the Athletic.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

I agree with that suspicion. Still makes me wonder about the value of such surveys to a sports reporter like the Athletic.

The value is it fills pages and causes clicks (by Canadian fans mostly). It's not really information that's useful at all.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

here it is



1. NJD
2. CAR
3. TBL
14. MTL
17. OTT
20. EDM
27. TOR
28. WPG
30.VAN
31. CGY

Draft & Development is being underrated by most people here. The Flames drafted and developed a lot of the elite talent in the NHL today including Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Adam Fox.

They’ve also had some success outside the first round with guys like Dube and Mangiapane.

It’s not the Flames fault their elite talent left. But their drafting has been significantly improved over the past 10ish years. It’s absurd to give them a D in my view. It’s at least in the B range, if not higher.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Draft & Development is being underrated by most people here. The Flames drafted and developed a lot of the elite talent in the NHL today including Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Adam Fox.

They’ve also had some success outside the first round with guys like Dube and Mangiapane.

It’s not the Flames fault their elite talent left. But their drafting has been significantly improved over the past 10ish years. It’s absurd to give them a D in my view. It’s at least in the B range, if not higher.

It's a relative comparison to other teams. Every team has contributed to drafting star players into the league. Literally every team.

It's nice to feel positive about this team, but relative to other teams in the league, I'd say it's pretty accurate to say that we lack a clear vision and our trades and especially UFA signings are not great. Don't really see a problem with the poll. It is what it is.

If front office want public perception of the team to be better, do a better job managing the team.

[kehatch]

Conroy is paralyzed. The team has to rebuild but it can't rebuild.

We can debate a rebuild all we want, but the point of a rebuild is to establish your core. The Flames have lost most of its core (Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Giordano, Bennett) and may lose most of the rest (Lindholm, Hanafin, Backlund). Therefore we have to rebuild. The only question is whether it's via high draft picks or "on the fly".

At the same time, the Flames can't do a traditional rebuild. We don't have the prospects and we have too much invested in veteran players. As such your trying to balance a rebuild with staying competitive and that's very difficult.

It limits the moves available. You can't lose players like Hanifin for nothing. That impacts your rebuild and it hurts your competitiveness beyond this season. At the same time, you can't trade him for futures. You can't lose that type of asset and stay competitive.

That leaves you with a hockey trade. But even that isn't clear. If Lindholm stays then the trade target is a scoring winger with a RH shot. But if Lindholm doesn't stay then you need to trade Hanafin for a center.

I expect once they figure out what's happening with Lindholm the dominos will begin to fall. But Conroy has a heck of a balancing act to perform and he is running out of time to do it.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Conroy is paralyzed. The team has to rebuild but it can't rebuild.

We can debate a rebuild all we want, but the point of a rebuild is to establish your core. The Flames have lost most of its core (Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Giordano, Bennett) and may lose most of the rest (Lindholm, Hanafin, Backlund). Therefore we have to rebuild. The only question is whether it's via high draft picks or "on the fly".

At the same time, the Flames can't do a traditional rebuild. We don't have the prospects and we have too much invested in veteran players. As such your trying to balance a rebuild with staying competitive and that's very difficult.

It limits the moves available. You can't lose players like Hanifin for nothing. That impacts your rebuild and it hurts your competitiveness beyond this season. At the same time, you can't trade him for futures. You can't lose that type of asset and stay competitive.

That leaves you with a hockey trade. But even that isn't clear. If Lindholm stays then the trade target is a scoring winger with a RH shot. But if Lindholm doesn't stay then you need to trade Hanafin for a center.

I expect once they figure out what's happening with Lindholm the dominos will begin to fall. But Conroy has a heck of a balancing act to perform and he is running out of time to do it.

I agree, but I don't think he is running out of time until the trade deadline, he is ok to be patient until then.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Conroy is paralyzed. The team has to rebuild but it can't rebuild.

We can debate a rebuild all we want, but the point of a rebuild is to establish your core. The Flames have lost most of its core (Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Giordano, Bennett) and may lose most of the rest (Lindholm, Hanafin, Backlund). Therefore we have to rebuild. The only question is whether it's via high draft picks or "on the fly".

I agree that they should rebuild but i disagree with the premise that they don't have a core.

When they lost the old core they should of rebuilt. Instead they knee jerk reacted and re-created a new core on the fly.

That current core is huberdeau, Kadri, weegar, rasmus and markstrom.
Lindholm if he re-signs is part of that core.

Hopefully aleast one young guy pops off and joins that core.

Personally I think this core doesn't have what it takes to be a consistent top contender and is probably on the downswing, so I think they should rebuild.


But it is a core.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Negative posters just love stewing in each other’s negativity and then project it all as a crisis of organizational failure.

The Flames have been a better than average team for over a decade with legit opportunities to be great, and this year look to be average at worst.

I personally think Conroy injects a massive dose of enthusiasm to the organization and Huska has the hockey IQ to strategize with the evolution of the game. And the organization has the most dominant goalie not already in the NHL.

The future is not as bleak as the negative Nancy’s would have you believe.

Not being overly enthused about the current roster and direction does not mean a fan is negative. It's objective to conclude that the team missed the playoffs last season and hasn't markedly improved on paper this offseason. Maybe the coaching change can make a big difference but as of now we really don't have any idea if the team will be better than they were last season. This is a team that would surprise nobody to make or miss the playoffs next season and I'm getting a little tired of posters drawing lines in the sand where if you aren't expecting the team to do great things you are some sort of negative Nancy. I have no issue with your optimism but please stop trying to divide this place. If you find some posters overbearing with what you deem negative responses, just put them on ignore and leave it at that as I don't understand why so many posters obsess about the opinions of others. You can only control what you post so post your opinions on the team and leave it at that as people don't come here to read posters opinions on other posters.

[1qqaaz]

I think the roster is pretty good, the prospects are fine, and the team will likely make* the playoffs.

But overall I have a "negative" outlook on the team because of the long term cap situation in combination with the ages of the players with long contracts. Cap efficiency is everything in this league and the Flames don't have it.

[Igottago]

It comes down to uncertainty. There's a lot of uncertainty around the team. New GM, new coach, key players who want out, might stay, might go, players who vastly underperformed last season. Nobody knows what the Flames are right now.

Just like investors stay away from putting money into uncertain investments, no fans or pundits are going to stake their claim on the Flames being a great team next season. And with everything that transpired over the last 13-14 months, why would they?
You can have hope, but I doubt anyone would lay down a sizeable wager on the Flames being a really good team this season. It's tough to be confident in that position right now, even if as fans we hope it'll be the case.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Drop the ####ing puck already!!!

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Conroy is paralyzed. The team has to rebuild but it can't rebuild.

We can debate a rebuild all we want, but the point of a rebuild is to establish your core. The Flames have lost most of its core (Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Giordano, Bennett) and may lose most of the rest (Lindholm, Hanafin, Backlund). Therefore we have to rebuild. The only question is whether it's via high draft picks or "on the fly".

At the same time, the Flames can't do a traditional rebuild. We don't have the prospects and we have too much invested in veteran players. As such your trying to balance a rebuild with staying competitive and that's very difficult.

It limits the moves available. You can't lose players like Hanifin for nothing. That impacts your rebuild and it hurts your competitiveness beyond this season. At the same time, you can't trade him for futures. You can't lose that type of asset and stay competitive.

That leaves you with a hockey trade. But even that isn't clear. If Lindholm stays then the trade target is a scoring winger with a RH shot. But if Lindholm doesn't stay then you need to trade Hanafin for a center.

I expect once they figure out what's happening with Lindholm the dominos will begin to fall. But Conroy has a heck of a balancing act to perform and he is running out of time to do it.

I guess I'm in the minority but I think you could get a lot of good pieces by trading Lindholm and Hanifin for futures.

I also don't agree with the thought process that "this team can't rebuild because it has no prospects". Well, that's exactly why I would rebuild, otherwise you find yourself in a worse position than the Flames in 2013 when they sold Iginla and Bouwmeester far later than they should have. The only real difference makers/prospects that came out of the organization during that era were Gaudreau and Backlund - not nearly enough to bring this team over the top after we added Monahan/Tkachuk/the rest of the core.

This is definitely a team that has structured its contracts for the short-term. But again, you can't let the mistakes of the past dictate further miscues for the future. It sucks that Huberdeau and Kadri are on the books for 8/6 more seasons, but those costs are sunk.

If the Flames truly believe they are a contender, by all means make these next moves like they believe it. But I don't even think the Flames organization believes that. They think if they get into the playoffs, there is a chance for another 2004 run. That's how this organization has been run for 20 years.

[Ashes]

I think those rankings are fair honestly. After losing Fox, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan and Bennett (all for different reasons) I would have a hard time giving the Flames a higher grade than D for "Cap Management", "Vision", "FA Signings", and "Roster Building". "Trades" were solid IMO under Tre, but so far we've only seen the Toffoli trade from Conroy and it hasn't exactly inspired A+ confidence, though I do hope that Sharangovich thrives here with more playtime.

The only category remaining where the fans have given them a higher grade is "Draft and Develop" which honestly is one area I'm perfectly happy with the Flames. Without picking in the Top-4 we've done very well over the last 10 years.

So yeah I'm not even upset to see those grades, if anything I think it shows that much of the fanbase are ready for changes and I think that starts with whatever they decide to do with Lindholm, Hanafin, Backlund. I know it's easy to look back and say they should have done this and that, but honestly last trade deadline was the the opportunity to move some of these guys, and now here we are with 6 upcoming UFA's in a lousy trade market with a ton of teams right up to the cap. "D" is accurate.