[Trade] Flames trade Toffoli to NJ for RFA rights to Sharangovich and 80th OA

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It seems to me, based on your description of Zadorov's ‘intangibles’, that you think Zadorov is better than Hanifin because, although he accomplishes less against weaker opposition, you like the style in which he does it.

Hockey scoreboards display numbers for time, goals, and penalties, but I have never seen one marked ‘style’.

I think Big Z has more room to grow than Hanifin. He can also do things Hanifin can’t. As in physical play.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think Big Z has more room to grow than Hanifin. He can also do things Hanifin can’t. As in physical play.

How does he have more room to grow when he is two year older than Hanifin?

I love Big Z, but he is what he is. A big, physical 4-5 defenseman.

[Poe969]

Can we start a new thread about this please? I keep waiting for news on Lindholm, Hanifin, and/or Backlund and then see "trade" and its something that happened months ago.

Plus, some might want to join the conversation but they don't know it's going on because it's in the Toffoli trade thread.

Thanks.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I went and reviewed the stats. Hanifin is better, it's pretty clear. But the one stat that did pop out to me is over the last 3 years, hits. Hanifin at 167 vs. Zadorov at 545. That's a large delta, so the physical thing is true. Basically Hanifin is the better all around dman in pretty much all categories but hitting, but Zadorov takes more penalties.

I love the way Zadorov plays, but he needs to learn to pick his spots more consistently. His physicality isn’t an advantage if he’s throwing himself out of position to lay a big hit and then giving up a grade A scoring chance against.

Look no further than the game against Boston in Calgary this year. Flames are up by a goal with 5 minutes left in the third and Zadorov steps up at his own blueline to clobber Debrusk which in turn also takes out Mangiapane. Orlov is given a free lane to the net and finds Zacha back door for a tap in. Bruins tie it and Flames lose in OT.

It’s that kind of decision making that makes Zadorov so frustrating at times.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

The Zadorov infatuation over Hanifin is strange and misguided.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The Zadorov infatuation over Hanifin is strange and misguided.

More like I want to sign the guy that would have 1/3 of the cap hit, has a better likelihood of staying here over the other, and adds much needed physicality on the back end.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Can we start a new thread about this please? I keep waiting for news on Lindholm, Hanifin, and/or Backlund and then see "trade" and its something that happened months ago.

Plus, some might want to join the conversation but they don't know it's going on because it's in the Toffoli trade thread.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, you have to do it. The rest of us used up all of our free thread starts and are unwilling to pay the $79.99 fee to start a new thread for you.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I think Big Z has more room to grow than Hanifin. He can also do things Hanifin can’t. As in physical play.

Of course he has more room to grow... He is bigger after all!

More to your point though, Z definitely has all the right tools, and that's what makes you think he's ready to take another step. However I think his hockey IQ is much lower than Hanifin's. Z is just not as good at quickly reading the play develop. That's why he can be such a rollercoaster in the D zone. I don't know how he can improve that.

As for Hanifin, I think he's now more than ever ready to take another step. In their short time together Hanifin - Tanev was a top 3 pairing in the league last year. Hanifin got to use his offense a lot more without Andersson on his pairing.

I actually hope to see Hanifin have a Toews like season under Huska, and decide to stay, or at least drive the price up. If/when he's traded I think he will have a similar season to H. Lindholm(10G, 50P, +40). Which is why this whole situation reminds me of Bouwmeester, whom we gave up for peanuts, only for him to help STL become a contender year in and year out.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

The Zadorov infatuation over Hanifin is strange and misguided.

I would definitely keep Hanifin over Zadorov but they are both pending UFAs and you can't make someone sign here if they don't want to.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I would definitely keep Hanifin over Zadorov but they are both pending UFAs and you can't make someone sign here if they don't want to.

There will be a lot of interesting D on the free agent market this year. If Hanifin/Tanev were gone I would look at several of them before re-signing Z: Toews, Pesce, Skjei, Gostisbehere, Grzelcyk, Montour, Forsling, Dumba, Brodie, and DeMelo come to mind. Some of them like Brodie would have to be on a 3 years or less contract.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

More like I want to sign the guy that would have 1/3 of the cap hit, has a better likelihood of staying here over the other, and adds much needed physicality on the back end.

No way Zadorov will have a third of the cap hit of Hanifin unless you think Hanifin will be making 12 million lol. I am not sure I like Zadarov at 5 mil per year.

[Flames1217]

Slotting is very important for D men.

Zadarov isn't worth what Hanifin is but he plays a very important role on the team nonetheless.

We are currently soft as butter, Zadarov is one of the only players on the team who brings any form of grit.

Hanifin's spot could be replaced by Weegar but no one can replace what Z currently brings. Bringing back Kylington (if he can play like before) also makes losing Hanifin less painful.

In essence although Hanifin is the better player, he is the more expendable player due to our organizational depth in players who could assume his role.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by bax

This is pretty ridiculous. Hanifin is better by almost every metric than Zadorov while being younger and playing against better competition.

Not sure why people underrate Hanifin so much. We will miss him when he gets traded.

Except he doesn’t want to extend here, so after licking our wounds from Gaudreau and Tkachuk, people just want to recoup something.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

Except he doesn’t want to extend here, so after licking our wounds from Gaudreau and Tkachuk, people just want to recoup something.

Right, because trading Hanifin for a roll of stick tape would be far better than trading Tkachuk for Weegar, Huberdeau, and Schwindt, none of whom are of any possible use to a hockey team.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

No way Zadorov will have a third of the cap hit of Hanifin unless you think Hanifin will be making 12 million lol. I am not sure I like Zadarov at 5 mil per year.

Haha, I meant 2/3. Good catch

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

More like I want to sign the guy that would have 1/3 of the cap hit, has a better likelihood of staying here over the other, and adds much needed physicality on the back end.

No no, we’re all big dummies who don’t understand that they are completely different D with different deployments.

[bax]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

Except he doesn’t want to extend here, so after licking our wounds from Gaudreau and Tkachuk, people just want to recoup something.

Yes and that’s fine.

I was responding to the poster who said Zadorov is a better defenseman than Hanifin is right now. It’s just blatantly not true.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

Slotting is very important for D men.

Zadarov isn't worth what Hanifin is but he plays a very important role on the team nonetheless.

We are currently soft as butter, Zadarov is one of the only players on the team who brings any form of grit.

Hanifin's spot could be replaced by Weegar but no one can replace what Z currently brings. Bringing back Kylington (if he can play like before) also makes losing Hanifin less painful.

In essence although Hanifin is the better player, he is the more expendable player due to our organizational depth in players who could assume his role.

Whenever I get too high on Z, I rewatch the highlights from any of the games against CHI last year, but the last 2 in particular. They just stuck with me because those losses were tough to swallow. They pretty much outline the biggest holes in his game: defending 2 on 1s, tying up the forward's stick infront of the net, lower hockey IQ - watching the play develop while being stuck out of position.

I like what he brings, but I don't think we should be spending $3.5M on someone who's going to mostly play on the 3rd pairing. I'd much raher spend $3M or less on the whole 3rd pairing, and spend more on the top of the roster.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Whenever I get too high on Z, I rewatch the highlights from any of the games against CHI last year, but the last 2 in particular. They just stuck with me because those losses were tough to swallow. They pretty much outline the biggest holes in his game: defending 2 on 1s, tying up the forward's stick infront of the net, lower hockey IQ - watching the play develop while being stuck out of position.

I like what he brings, but I don't think we should be spending $3.5M on someone who's going to mostly play on the 3rd pairing. I'd much raher spend $3M or less on the whole 3rd pairing, and spend more on the top of the roster.

Do you honestly seek out video of his mistakes to make sure you don't like him too much? Do you do this with any other players?

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

There will be a lot of interesting D on the free agent market this year. If Hanifin/Tanev were gone I would look at several of them before re-signing Z: Toews, Pesce, Skjei, Gostisbehere, Grzelcyk, Montour, Forsling, Dumba, Brodie, and DeMelo come to mind. Some of them like Brodie would have to be on a 3 years or less contract.

the 2 issues with this post is that not all of those players are better than Z and how may of them would come here?

then we shouldn't re-sign some forwards because Drai and McD will be available in a couple of years.