[Trade] Flames trade Toffoli to NJ for RFA rights to Sharangovich and 80th OA

[Major Major]

Ya 5 is not an overpay for Z in my mind. His role is going to grow without Hanifin around...

[Heavy Jack]

Where I’m at with all of the pending UFA’s is the following

Extend
Lindholm - priority
Kylington
Zadorov

Trade
Hanifin - priority
Tanev
Vladar

Deadline or offseason
Backlund - depends on where the flames sit

Say Hanifin for Marchenko + Peeke happens before the start of the season, the lineup would look like this to start

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Marchenko
Mangiapane - Kadri - Sharangovich
Dube - Backlund - Coronato
Pelletier - Ruzicka - Coleman
Duehr

Weegar - Andersson
Kylington - Tanev
Zadorov - Peeke
Oesterle

Markstrom
Vladar and Wolf

Through the season look at trading Tanev and Vladar by no later than the quarter point of the season, Backs can be figured out at the deadline or in the offseason and is the only player I’d be comfortable with walking for nothing in return.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Disagree. I think someone would offer him a 20-25m deal in the 4-5 year range. The cap is going up.

How is the Gudbranson deal looking in Colombus? I think that locking up Z for that money would be a mistake, unless he takes another step defensively.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

How is the Gudbranson deal looking in Colombus? I think that locking up Z for that money would be a mistake, unless he takes another step defensively.

Yeah. I think Zadarov will get paid like a #3 dman but is really a #5 on a good team. If he keeps progressing then sure but I think he gets the big and mean overpay. Especially if he matches his point totals from last season.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

How is the Gudbranson deal looking in Colombus? I think that locking up Z for that money would be a mistake, unless he takes another step defensively.

Z has always been better than Gud. The Gud deal should never be used as a comparable because Z at least puts up points.

[CFO]

Zadorov is a 3.5 - 4mm D.

Good age, hits, can rush, decent D game.

Keeps improving.

Flames and most NHL teams don't have D like him.

[dammage79]

Stop bumping this thread! Every time I log in I get all happy only to find out its the ONLY trade this summer.

Go outside, the lot of ya!

[D as in David]

I'm a pretty big fan of Zadorov's but I think what holds him back from being a top 4 d-man is that he appears to process the game at a slower rate than you'd like to see. Is that something that can be learned with experience?

[Freddy]

I like Zadorov enough to sign him to a 4 year contract to get a reasonable cap hit commensurate with a #4 D. I don’t find too many holes in his game and his size/use of size is good as part of the Flames reputation league wide.

[Mr.Coffee]

This is all interesting. Personally I think Zadorov is (currently) better than Hanifin. Larger, protects the puck well. Maybe not as good of a passer but has a better shot and hits better. Skating slightly worse maybe. Defensively gotta be pretty close.

[FlamesAddiction]

Zadorov looked really good when jumped into the play in the offensive zone and carried the puck towards the net. I didn't know he had that side to his game. He looked like an extra forward at times. I don't know if he just found that, or if Sutter saw he could do it and told him to do it, but I hope we see more of that.

I always have to remind myself that he was a 1st round pick and is at the age where many defensemen start reaching their potential, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised that he has become a pretty good player.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is all interesting. Personally I think Zadorov is (currently) better than Hanifin. Larger, protects the puck well. Maybe not as good of a passer but has a better shot and hits better. Skating slightly worse maybe. Defensively gotta be pretty close.

Not in my mind.

Hanifin has better numbers in almost every single category and is deployed as a top four (usually top pair) defender against the top competition.

There's a reason Zadorov is only seeing elite oppositing 18% of his ice time compared to Hanifin at almost 30%.

Zadorov brings some solid intangibles but he's a 4-5 at best in the league.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is all interesting. Personally I think Zadorov is (currently) better than Hanifin. Larger, protects the puck well. Maybe not as good of a passer but has a better shot and hits better. Skating slightly worse maybe. Defensively gotta be pretty close.

This is pretty ridiculous. Hanifin is better by almost every metric than Zadorov while being younger and playing against better competition.

Not sure why people underrate Hanifin so much. We will miss him when he gets traded.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by bax

This is pretty ridiculous. Hanifin is better by almost every metric than Zadorov while being younger and playing against better competition.

Not sure why people underrate Hanifin so much. We will miss him when he gets traded.

Maybe yeah. There’s some intangibles likely not coming into account in your estimation though. Things like size, hitting / physicality, ability to box out in front of the net, and even powerplay ability are all better with Zadorov. Do the stats your referencing refer to those categories at all?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Maybe yeah. There’s some intangibles likely not coming into account in your estimation though. Things like size, hitting / physicality, ability to box out in front of the net, and even powerplay ability are all better with Zadorov. Do the stats your referencing refer to those categories at all?

Intangibles is what people use to defend their position when all data points to them being wrong
The data does in general quantify overall ability to defend and suppress chances

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Intangibles is what people use to defend their position when all data points to them being wrong
The data does in general quantify overall ability to defend and suppress chances

Except that there are times when data doesn’t explain all things.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Except that there are times when data doesn’t explain all things.

It seems to me, based on your description of Zadorov's ‘intangibles’, that you think Zadorov is better than Hanifin because, although he accomplishes less against weaker opposition, you like the style in which he does it.

Hockey scoreboards display numbers for time, goals, and penalties, but I have never seen one marked ‘style’.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It seems to me, based on your description of Zadorov's ‘intangibles’, that you think Zadorov is better than Hanifin because, although he accomplishes less against weaker opposition, you like the style in which he does it.

Hockey scoreboards display numbers for time, goals, and penalties, but I have never seen one marked ‘style’.

I went and reviewed the stats. Hanifin is better, it's pretty clear. But the one stat that did pop out to me is over the last 3 years, hits. Hanifin at 167 vs. Zadorov at 545. That's a large delta, so the physical thing is true. Basically Hanifin is the better all around dman in pretty much all categories but hitting, but Zadorov takes more penalties.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I went and reviewed the stats. Hanifin is better, it's pretty clear. But the one stat that did pop out to me is over the last 3 years, hits. Hanifin at 167 vs. Zadorov at 545. That's a large delta, so the physical thing is true. Basically Hanifin is the better all around dman in pretty much all categories but hitting, but Zadorov takes more penalties.

There are certainly some things Zadorov does better than Hanifin and Zadorov seems like a higher risk player on the ice sometimes. I agree with others that Hanifin is a better overall player, but Zadorov adds an element Hanifin just can't.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I went and reviewed the stats. Hanifin is better, it's pretty clear. But the one stat that did pop out to me is over the last 3 years, hits. Hanifin at 167 vs. Zadorov at 545. That's a large delta, so the physical thing is true. Basically Hanifin is the better all around dman in pretty much all categories but hitting, but Zadorov takes more penalties.

That's fair.

I think a well-constructed team has a place for both those kinds of players. It shouldn't be a matter of choosing one or the other.