Calgary cops suspended after arrest video released

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Is this really surprising? It's only an issue because it's caught on video tape. Police officers quiet often do whatever they want until they get caught. They will even lie on the stand (I've witnessed it myself).

Here we go...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

You're the one painting the entire department with the same brush.

CPS using excessive force? Say it ain't so!

So I should've specified by writing "Some members of CPS using excessive force..."? My bad.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by The Unabomber

Similar to me getting up from my desk and kicking the crap out of the guy in next office while it's caught on tape. I suppose that i would get suspended with pay? Not likely, i would be arrested and told never to come back.

WOOOSSSHHHHH!!!!!

Thats the sound you the point going way over your head. You don't get paid to arrest and deal with dangerous people day in, day out. You kicking the crap outta a coworker has nothing to do with policing, where as them using force comes with the job.

I have not seen the video, so I can't comment on this video, but having alot of law enforcement in my family I can say that 95% of the time the cries of execessive force is a criminal whining to get leniancay.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Here we go...

Yep, because there are absolutley no documented cases of excessive force or corrupt police officers. None at all...just ask New Orleans.

[Iggy Snipe]

I haven't seen the video, but if youdo something to get arressted, the cops are not going to ask you nicely to put handcuffs on.

Too many cops have been killed from stupid people shooting them, stabbing them, etc...

Cops have their lives on the line every second they put that uniform on, and I don't blame them for a second. They have a tough job, whether you think they do or not.

When I was 18 I was so drunk and I passed out with my head in my arms in a bar right by my house. A cop woke me up and I guess I pushed his hand away from me. He quickly grabbed me took me down and arressted me, then drove me home. I was mad at the time and though that they took it to far. Then I came to my senses and realized if I was a cop and a drunk idiot like myself pushed me, would I do the same thing?

Probably.

Cops keep us safe. My only complaint is the traffic tickets for going 3 over in a 50.

[Robbob]

I saw the video and it was excessive. They have a guy face first on the ground and one cop punches him a couple times. After the guy is handcuffed and still prone one cop drops a knee on him. They then drag him holding the hand cuffs. They then pick him up by the handcuffs. They said the guy wasn't hurt but I'm really surprised his shoulder wasn't thrown out.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Way too different scenarios. Police use force now and then, you don't in an office job. You NEVER have an excuse to use force in an office, while police officers can use force when required.

Haven't seen the video, but I'm getting tired of people saying that cops can't use force to do their job. I'm all for using force if someone isn't cooperating.

Okay, how about a bouncer then?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Looks like the video is on the news link posted...I am having issues getting it to play though.

When you get it to play you'll see a guy in lying on his stomach getting punched in the back of the head, then when he is in cuffs he gets a knee-drop to the back and is dragged by his arms across the pavement.

[The Unabomber]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

WOOOSSSHHHHH!!!!!

Thats the sound you the point going way over your head. You don't get paid to arrest and deal with dangerous people day in, day out. You kicking the crap outta a coworker has nothing to do with policing, where as them using force comes with the job.

I have not seen the video, so I can't comment on this video, but having alot of law enforcement in my family I can say that 95% of the time the cries of execessive force is a criminal whining to get leniancay.

I worked with a guy that was shot twice in the head by a cop in Pincher Creek, this is while he was handcuffed and in jail for being drunk. That's not excessive force though, the cop needed to pull his gun and shoot a handcuffed man? The cop went to a minimum security jail about 6 years after the fact, i beleive he was sentenced to 1 year. Makes sense now doesn't it? While he was awaiting his trial he was still getting paid........

The cops get away with what they want, when they want. The cops carry mace and a taser gun which can bring an unwilling criminal to his kness, yet they decide that the baton is a more reasonable tool to subdue someone?

I get the point, maybe because you have grown up around the law enforcement you are blind to the reality. Sure there are good cops, but i really don't understand how a cop caught beating on someone can justify a suspension WITH PAY. They are suppose to have the citizens respect, cases like this diminish that respect in a hurry.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think its a bit over the top, but we certainly won't know until the results of the investigation come out, and we can hear the cops side of the story.

I will say this, the knee thing, I've seen more then enough cops do it to subdue a struggling suspect. This wasn't a hulk hogan knee drop from the top rope.

And if the suspect refuses to standup or is beligerant or threatening in his actions, even with the cuffs on, the police will drag him into position.

But it all hinges on the arrest report.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by The Unabomber

I worked with a guy that was shot twice in the head by a cop in Pincher Creek, this is while he was handcuffed and in jail for being drunk. That's not excessive force though, the cop needed to pull his gun and shoot a handcuffed man? The cop went to a minimum security jail about 6 years after the fact, i beleive he was sentenced to 1 year. Makes sense now doesn't it? While he was awaiting his trial he was still getting paid........

The cops get away with what they want, when they want. The cops carry mace and a taser gun which can bring an unwilling criminal to his kness, yet they decide that the baton is a more reasonable tool to subdue someone?

I get the point, maybe because you have grown up around the law enforcement you are blind to the reality. Sure there are good cops, but i really don't understand how a cop caught beating on someone can justify a suspension WITH PAY. They are suppose to have the citizens respect, cases like this diminish that respect in a hurry.

Not to get into a debate about your friends. But the problem with Mace and Tasers is that they are not effective all the time, and in close quarters they are really ineffective.

Spray a person with Mace in a close range situation or in an enclosed space and your just as likely to incapacitate yourself.

I've seen people walk through tasers, and you can't shoot up a guy with multiple taser shots because it can become lethal.

The baton is there for short range work where the is a sufficient threat to the police officer, and I have no problem with it being used on a suspect if he's threatening.

The bottom line is that if you don't want to get mace, tasered, batoned or shot, when a police officer tells you to get on the ground you get on the ground. If he tells you to drop your knife or your gun or your bat you do it. If he tells you to freeze, you freeze.

I couldn't be a cop, its a thankless and difficult job, and your putting your life in the hands of idiots everyday who think that they can get the drop on you.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Okay, how about a bouncer then?

Bouncers are put in a position where they are given the permission to 'protect' the property and content of the bar owner. That said, they are entrusted with no more power to use physical force than you are I, as regular citizens. However, both bouncers and citizens can use force if they WITNESS an offense (indictable, dual procedure or summary offenses). In a bar environmet, this means that they can use physical force during an active assault, property damage, etc. However, and this goes the same for law enforcement, they are restricted to using the minimum amount of force necessary (based on what is reasonable in the circumstances).

What must be kept in mind, especially in situations with a small video clip, that there are things that occured before and after that we have very little info about. If what some say was true, that the person in the video was handcuffed and then the punching, etc took place, that would be very difficult to articulate from a reasonable force perspective.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not to get into a debate about your friends. But the problem with Mace and Tasers is that they are not effective all the time, and in close quarters they are really ineffective.

Spray a person with Mace in a close range situation or in an enclosed space and your just as likely to incapacitate yourself.

I've seen people walk through tasers, and you can't shoot up a guy with multiple taser shots because it can become lethal.

The baton is there for short range work where the is a sufficient threat to the police officer, and I have no problem with it being used on a suspect if he's threatening.

The bottom line is that if you don't want to get mace, tasered, batoned or shot, when a police officer tells you to get on the ground you get on the ground. If he tells you to drop your knife or your gun or your bat you do it. If he tells you to freeze, you freeze.

I couldn't be a cop, its a thankless and difficult job, and your putting your life in the hands of idiots everyday who think that they can get the drop on you.

Just a couple things, I'm not an expert, but I don't think people can walk through tasers. I've only seen videos, but those things can take down massive bulls. You're right though, they aren't always effective, especially if the darts miss the person or something happens to the gun itself.

As for the lethal part, I don't think a taser has ever been directly responsible for the death of anyone. People who die after being tased have usually been found to be high on cocaine, and suffered from excited delirium.

Originally Posted by The Unabomber

I worked with a guy that was shot twice in the head by a cop in Pincher Creek, this is while he was handcuffed and in jail for being drunk. That's not excessive force though, the cop needed to pull his gun and shoot a handcuffed man? The cop went to a minimum security jail about 6 years after the fact, i beleive he was sentenced to 1 year. Makes sense now doesn't it? While he was awaiting his trial he was still getting paid........

The cops get away with what they want, when they want. The cops carry mace and a taser gun which can bring an unwilling criminal to his kness, yet they decide that the baton is a more reasonable tool to subdue someone?

I get the point, maybe because you have grown up around the law enforcement you are blind to the reality. Sure there are good cops, but i really don't understand how a cop caught beating on someone can justify a suspension WITH PAY. They are suppose to have the citizens respect, cases like this diminish that respect in a hurry.

Wow... you are incredibly ignorant. I followed that trial very closely. The information presented was not black and white as you present it.

Please read up on the trial before posting sensationalized tales. Further, I encourage you to do some reading on police training, the psychology of physical force, hyper vigilance, etc. Hopefully it will change your obviously biased opinion.

[Flames_Gimp]

this is the problem with our justice system..no wonder criminals don't care about the consequences when the police can't even lay a finger on them.

[/over the top oppinion].

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Wow... you are incredibly ignorant. I followed that trial very closely. The information presented was not black and white as you present it.

Please read up on the trial before posting sensationalized tales. Further, I encourage you to do some reading on police training, the psychology of physical force, hyper vigilance, etc. Hopefully it will change your obviously biased opinion.

The guy ended up dead in a jail cell. Obviously the officer did something wrong. From what I remember I don't think he was even supposed to have his gun in there.

We all know that most cops are good ones, but some people appear to believe that they are all good ones. Of course there are going to be a few bad ones and they are going to do bad things.

It's not a bunch of hippies bitching about The Man here, the chief of police is the one who ordered the investigation after he saw the tape.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Just a couple things, I'm not an expert, but I don't think people can walk through tasers. I've only seen videos, but those things can take down massive bulls. You're right though, they aren't always effective, especially if the darts miss the person or something happens to the gun itself.

As for the lethal part, I don't think a taser has ever been directly responsible for the death of anyone. People who die after being tased have usually been found to be high on cocaine, and suffered from excited delirium.

The Madison Police department did a study after they deloyed tasers. In the first year they had 92 deployed usages of which 77 were effective. The failures were

Heavy clothes or baggy clothes 8
Missed 6
Wires broken during arrest 3
Stun failure 2
Weapon malfunction 1
Unknown failure to stun (perp shrugged it off) 1

So there are some failure points with the taser, especially if it isn't used properly (bad aim, close point, low muscle mass hit.

While you can't say that Tasers don't cause deaths there have been incidents where they have attributed to deaths. Especially when used in combination with other factors (use of mace before tasering, drug used, pre-existing health conditions).

[The Unabomber]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Wow... you are incredibly ignorant. I followed that trial very closely. The information presented was not black and white as you present it.

Please read up on the trial before posting sensationalized tales. Further, I encourage you to do some reading on police training, the psychology of physical force, hyper vigilance, etc. Hopefully it will change your obviously biased opinion.

You are kidding, right? You followed that trial closely, so did i! Explain to me what is not black and white about a cop shooting a man, locked in a cell already, handcuffed, twice in the head? Oh yeah, the cop said that Darren went for his gun? Interesting how that can happen, the guy was in a jail cell and the cop said he was going for his gun? A cop shooting someone in the head twice should never, ever be justified, but i guess i'm the ignorant one hey.

As far as having a biased opinion, explain that comment to me. Although i don't need to read up on the physical force used by cops to know that getting shot in a cell is a bit over the top and quite obviously an act of agression/violence by a person who should be able to restrain himself.

[The Unabomber]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The guy ended up dead in a jail cell. Obviously the officer did something wrong. From what I remember I don't think he was even supposed to have his gun in there.

We all know that most cops are good ones, but some people appear to believe that they are all good ones. Of course there are going to be a few bad ones and they are going to do bad things.

It's not a bunch of hippies bitching about The Man here, the chief of police is the one who ordered the investigation after he saw the tape.

Thany you Rougue for seeing some sense in what i was saying.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The guy ended up dead in a jail cell. Obviously the officer did something wrong. From what I remember I don't think he was even supposed to have his gun in there.


It's not a bunch of hippies bitching about The Man here, the chief of police is the one who ordered the investigation after he saw the tape.

Again, alot more to the story than that. Please, inform yourself. Obviously due to the number of trials, it wasn't as simple as you proclaim.

I don't discount that they (the 2 officers involved) could have done something over the top that warrants further action. However, I won't judge them until the whole story is out. And maybe the chief isn't the best source since 90% of frontline officers think he's incompetent.