Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Aarongavey]

https://thehub.ca/2022-08-09/is-ther...ves-in-canada/

And secondly, it is very alienating to a lot of people who see dog whistles, who see American stuff in there, who saw various elements like Trump flags, this kind of thing—yes they were limited in the protests, but still, the fact that they were associated with it makes people uncomfortable in the centre-right and Blue Liberal spaces.

So the problem with that is you will attract some voters, no question, on the side of the further Right or, you know, the populist vein, but you will alienate others in the centre-right where there’s a lot of opportunities for us to grow. So that’s my issue with populism: the way it’s playing out. Populism itself is not so much the problem as the way that it’s being used in the campaign and both the rhetoric and the substance of it to attract people.

I actually blame this podcast between two extremely well known federal conservatives on August 9, 2022 (5 weeks before Trudeau made the comment) for the dog whistle crisis that we now see playing out on CP. It was the Conservatives that first accused PP of dog-whistle politics and trying to court the far-right. Then he continued to do it and now is being accused of doing it.

[Firebot]

Since the usual crew is here now exactly on cue (and I simply don't have the time to reply one by one), let's go back to the video as some have forgotten or have chosen to ignore what they are even arguing about anymore and just piggybacking on whatever they can find where it stops being a discussion. Let's recap.

Reporter's question: "A number of your own comments and actions has been characterized as dog-whistling to the far-right...by a number of different experts" Are you trying to court the far right vote?"

Poilievre: "Who? By who? Experts? Who are the experts?"

My own post answering the question verbatim: "it was Trudeau who characterized Poilievre as a dog-whistler, which is why Poilievre called her out on her line of question. That is why she could not answer"

Fuzz and co. within minutes of my post, google fu for the sole purpose to prove me wrong quickly typing "Pierre pollovere dog whistling"...until they see Trudeau #1 "dog-whistle" the exact same term used by the reporter, they consciously choose to omit it, go down to trusted mainstream sources like Crier media, Rabble, Xtramagazine, a guy using #peepee tags, quoting random small time journalists down past page 2, 3, 4, anything they can find just to answer on behalf of the reporter who couldn't answer her own statement...clearly for non-partisan reasons of course to prove me wrong. Let that sink in for a second.

Does Poilievre pander to the far right? Yes. You don't need to search articles to prove me wrong since I never stated he didn't.

Who famously characterized Poilievre as dog-whistling? #1 google result that doesn't need strong google fu and could easily be remembered? The most notable one? Trudeau.

Did Trudeau invent the word "dog-whistle" itself as a term? Clearly not. To insinuate that is what I claimed is disingenuous and outright idiotic. He did not invent the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)

Is he the only notable one in reference to Poilievre? Despite some intense google fu by some...yes? Unless you want to count the #peepee guy as a notable expert? So he did in fact coin it in reference to Poilievre. "a term coined by Trudeau specifically a year ago" should read "a term referring to Poilievre coined by Trudeau specifically a year ago". Sorry clearly my bad since some of you could go so far as distort this into a completely different meaning. But sure grasp at straws, nothing gets passed "The Crew".

What term did the reporter use again? "characterized as dog-whistling"

Her question was loaded with a buzzword to fit a partisan narrative of how Poilievre was being portrayed, she got called out for it and could not answer her own claim.

Regardless of whether Poilievre legitimately panders to the far right or not (which seems to be what some of you are clinging to as an argument), that is irresponsible journalism.

Oh and "google fu" has been a thing for ages https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...term=google-fu

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Since the usual crew is here now exactly on cue (and I simply don't have the time to reply one by one), let's go back to the video as some have forgotten or have chosen to ignore what they are even arguing about anymore and just piggybacking on whatever they can find where it stops being a discussion. Let's recap.

Reporter's question: "A number of your own comments and actions has been characterized as dog-whistling to the far-right...by a number of different experts" Are you trying to court the far right vote?"

Poilievre: "Who? By who? Experts? Who are the experts?"

My own post answering the question verbatim: "it was Trudeau who characterized Poilievre as a dog-whistler, which is why Poilievre called her out on her line of question. That is why she could not answer"

Fuzz and co. within minutes of my post, google fu for the sole purpose to prove me wrong quickly typing "Pierre pollovere dog whistling"...until they see Trudeau #1 "dog-whistle" the exact same term used by the reporter, they consciously choose to omit it, go down to trusted mainstream sources like Crier media, Rabble, Xtramagazine, a guy using #peepee tags, quoting random small time journalists down past page 2, 3, 4, anything they can find just to answer on behalf of the reporter who couldn't answer her own statement...clearly for non-partisan reasons of course to prove me wrong. Let that sink in for a second.

Does Poilievre pander to the far right? Yes. You don't need to search articles to prove me wrong since I never stated he didn't.

Who famously characterized Poilievre as dog-whistling? #1 google result that doesn't need strong google fu and could easily be remembered? The most notable one? Trudeau.

Did Trudeau invent the word "dog-whistle" itself as a term? Clearly not. To insinuate that is what I claimed is disingenuous and outright idiotic. He did not invent the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_(politics)

Is he the only notable one in reference to Poilievre? Despite some intense google fu by some...yes? Unless you want to count the #peepee guy as a notable expert? So he did in fact coin it in reference to Poilievre. "a term coined by Trudeau specifically a year ago" should read "a term referring to Poilievre coined by Trudeau specifically a year ago". Sorry clearly my bad since some of you could go so far as distort this into a completely different meaning. But sure grasp at straws, nothing gets passed "The Crew".

What term did the reporter use again? "characterized as dog-whistling"

Her question was loaded with a buzzword to fit a partisan narrative of how Poilievre was being portrayed, she got called out for it and could not answer her own claim.

Regardless of whether Poilievre legitimately panders to the far right or not (which seems to be what some of you are clinging to as an argument), that is irresponsible journalism.

Oh and "google fu" has been a thing for ages https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...term=google-fu

I literally just quoted a lady who worked as a political staffer for Conservaties, was President of the Youth wing of the Conservative Party, worked at well known left wing organizations such as the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, the Montreal Economic Institute and the Fraser Institute, and who has been a well-known conservative columnist in the renowned socialist newspaper the National Post for over a decade who said he uses dog-whistle politics well before Trudeau ever said he did.

I suppose the above facts did not fit into the narrative of this post though.

[Yamer]

I mean, you could just say you didn't know what the term "coined" meant. It's ok to be wrong.

[Fuzz]

Nah, you are totally wrong on this, take the L and move on.

[opendoor]

So if am I understanding this correctly, based on what everyone seems to agree on:

1) Poilievre panders to the far right.

2) The phrase dog whistle has been used in politics around the world for decades (as the Wikipedia entry attests to) when referring to a person pandering to more extreme elements, particularly when using terms and phrases that really get their attention (e.g. WEF, digital ID, etc.)

But when a reporter asks him about pandering to the far right in that way using the phrase "dog whistle", that's all of the sudden fabricating an allegation to promote a Liberal narrative. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense...

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I mean, you could just say you didn't know what the term "coined" meant. It's ok to be wrong.

Coined = devised. I know what it meant, that's exactly why I used it.

I just didn't phrase it in reference to Poilievre in my haste, getting the 'gotcha' replies. I meant what I said in the subsequent post, I didn't say it. So yes wrong in the way I wrote it.

If people want to continue egging on it, go right ahead.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I take back what I said about the term “google fu,” because if it didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have someone who commented on someone’s else’s “week google fu” being so poor at using Google that they genuinely thought Trudeau coined the phrase “dog whistling” hahaha.

I love this place.

You must have missed the post where I asked you about why Quebec is paying less carbon tax than the rest of Canada. Since you wanted to chime in there.

[2Stonedbirds]

Experts say Trudeau is communist offspring of some dude who once lived near Florida.

sOuRcE? Don't need one, it came from -experts- using #####trudeau hashtags and stormfront.

Checkmate

[Wormius]

Unless my mental image of you is a Danny McBride lookalike, “y’all” makes me cringe.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Coined = devised. I know what it meant, that's exactly why I used it.

I just didn't phrase it in reference to Poilievre in my haste, getting the 'gotcha' replies. I meant what I said in the subsequent post, I didn't say it. So yes wrong in the way I wrote it.

If people want to continue egging on it, go right ahead.

You still could just say you didn’t know what the word meant, or that you don’t know what “devised” means in relation to the definition of “coined.” You wouldn’t have used it if you did.

Better Google Fu is expected next time, sensei


And it wouldn’t be an issue if your entire argument wasn’t completely useless without the the idea that Trudeau “invented” the word. Oh wow, a reporter used a phrase that Trudeau also once used! Oh no! Stop the presses! Collusion! Conspiracy! People are using the words the same!

Like, come on. Don’t try so hard.

[Fuzz]

It's hilarious Alberta Conservatives only care about equality when it comes to Quebec. Everything else in life? FYGM. But oh wow if Alberta isn't treated exactly fairly compared to Quebec it's suddenly the egalitarian society they pine for.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's hilarious Alberta Conservatives only care about equality when it comes to Quebec. Everything else in life? FYGM. But oh wow if Alberta isn't treated exactly fairly compared to Quebec it's suddenly the egalitarian society they pine for.

Do you think Quebec should pay same amount of carbon tax as the rest of the country?

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by opendoor

So if am I understanding this correctly, based on what everyone seems to agree on:

1) Poilievre panders to the far right.

2) The phrase dog whistle has been used in politics around the world for decades (as the Wikipedia entry attests to) when referring to a person pandering to more extreme elements, particularly when using terms and phrases that really get their attention (e.g. WEF, digital ID, etc.)

But when a reporter asks him about pandering to the far right in that way using the phrase "dog whistle", that's all of the sudden fabricating an allegation to promote a Liberal narrative. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense...

Dog whistling is a fair bit of an accusation with a special connotation that goes well beyond political pandering, and ventures into xenophobia and racism elements.

The WEF, digital ID comments aren't ones which would be typically be termed as dog-whistling

The anglo-saxon comment however, is the quite controversial one that has been pointed to (and the one that eventually resulted in the podcast Aarongrey linked).

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poil...cast-1.5910090

Does Poilievre pander? Yes. Does Poilievre practice populism? Undeniable. Dog-whistling is a bigger accusation that should be better quantified (especially if he practices it)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Do you think Quebec should pay same amount of carbon tax as the rest of the country?

Do you? And why/why not?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Coined = devised. I know what it meant, that's exactly why I used it.

I just didn't phrase it in reference to Poilievre in my haste, getting the 'gotcha' replies. I meant what I said in the subsequent post, I didn't say it. So yes wrong in the way I wrote it.

If people want to continue egging on it, go right ahead.

All this tells me is that you don't know what "devised" means either.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Dog whistling is a fair bit of an accusation with a special connotation that goes well beyond political pandering, and ventures into xenophobia and racism elements.

The WEF, digital ID comments aren't ones which would be typically be termed as dog-whistling

The anglo-saxon comment however, is the quite controversial one that has been pointed to (and the one that eventually resulted in the podcast Aarongrey linked).

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poil...cast-1.5910090

Does Poilievre pander? Yes. Does Poilievre practice populism? Undeniable. Dog-whistling is a bigger accusation that should be better quantified (especially if he practices it)

The whole global bankers want to rule the world is a anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. It is an anti-Semitic dog whistle

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Dog whistling is a fair bit of an accusation with a special connotation that goes well beyond political pandering, and ventures into xenophobia and racism elements.

The WEF, digital ID comments aren't ones which would be typically be termed as dog-whistling

The anglo-saxon comment however, is the quite controversial one that has been pointed to (and the one that eventually resulted in the podcast Aarongrey linked).

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poil...cast-1.5910090

Does Poilievre pander? Yes. Does Poilievre practice populism? Undeniable. Dog-whistling is a bigger accusation that should be better quantified (especially if he practices it)

They're exactly what dog whistling is. He's talking about things that the average voter barely knows or cares about, but that the far-right is fanatical about. It's designed to get the attention of the crazies without causing waves with everyone else. The last 2 elections cycles in the US have been filled with examples of dog whistling to QAnon.

[Firebot]

Poilievre has a very strong and long standing record supporting the state of Israel.

https://www.jns.org/canadian-opposit...rime-minister/

“I announced my recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital [while campaigning] and now, as opposition leader and head of the Conservative Party, I repeat clearly and unambiguously: Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, and when I am elected prime minister of Canada, I will ensure that our embassy is relocated from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem,” said Poilievre.

https://thecjn.ca/news/tories-liberals-spar-israel/

Poilievre reiterated some of the points made in the flyer, starting with the assertion that the Liberal government “willingly” continued to participate in the 2001 United Nations Durban conference against racism, even after it had become a forum for anti-Semitism. He contrasted that with Harper having been the first national leader in the world to withdraw from the second Durban conference this year.

He also repeated that the Harper government was the first in the world to cut funding to the Hamas-led government in Gaza when the Liberals were calling for an increase in funding.

Can his stance be any clearer?

That's exactly what I mean by unsubstantiated accusations born from political boogyman and narratives, and why claiming he is dog-whistling is asinine and dangerous and needs to be substantiated.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Do you think Quebec should pay same amount of carbon tax as the rest of the country?

It's an irrelevant question. It's like asking "do you think everything in Canada should be split exactly evenly between all citizens".