2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

With the hope that those futures can get you to the same spot one day that you're in currently?

There HAS to be succession at some point though, no?

Can't think of a more logical time than when significant pieces are pending free agents. It's irresponsible to close your eyes and win now with disregard for the age and contract statuses of your core.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

With the hope that those futures can get you to the same spot one day that you're in currently?

As opposed to the nothing if the players say they aren’t re-signing?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think it’s sad statement due to emotional damage/baggage the fanbase carries.

Just because the organization was incompetent under one General Manager/scouting regime, doesn’t mean it’s doomed to repeat that lack of success.

The incompetence of past regimes should not dictate what happens going forward. If it does, then yeah - that’s a sad state of affairs. You can’t build a better team if you’re scared of what happened 20 years ago.

…but yeah to your point, if the reality is that this team refuses to plan their team around top-5 draft picks, that’s just a sad, sad reality.

That's a lot of narrative for one simple fact.

You need to be top five to draft elite centers (as a general rule), and have some luck as well (lottery).

Not sure I'm a fan of any management group that plans their team around top 5 draft picks.

[Monahammer]

Just a fan of a management/ownership group/strategy who has failed to truly compete for the cup outside of 1 occasion in 30 years? Seems like a poor choice, honestly.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Haven't seen it mentioned ...

But Steinberg's Flames Talk show yesterday had him relieving some of my concerns over the Flames walking their players to free agency. Said in talking to Conroy he gets the feeling the players would be on the move to retain value regardless of position in the standings.

(paraphrasing)

Hmm, I'll believe it when I see it.

I honestly think with some key bounce back seasons this team could challenge for another division title.

If they're in 1st place at the deadline and have key pending UFA's still on the roster (Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, Backlund, Zad) IMO they are not going to start trading them for futures, nor should they.

The problem should be dealt with right now, but if team's aren't offering fair value for these players it's a tough spot to be in. Can't really give them away now because you might be forced to walk them to UFA next off season.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

There HAS to be succession at some point though, no?

Can't think of a more logical time than when significant pieces are pending free agents. It's irresponsible to close your eyes and win now with disregard for the age and contract statuses of your core.

You don't have to necessarily trade away players to build a team though.
I'd say it starts with keeping your own picks.

I don't want to dismantle a good team. Let's see where the team is and how they are playing. If you're one of the top teams in the conference, that seems like a good thing.

To me that's not closing your eyes.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Just a fan of a management/ownership group/strategy who has failed to truly compete for the cup outside of 1 occasion in 30 years? Seems like a poor choice, honestly.

Who did I say I was a fan of?

But don't count me in the assessing new management / ownership based on 30 years club. Makes little sense to me.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I don’t think so. Huberdeau and Markstorm return to career averages and they are going to be in the mix

First I want to say that anything is possible. I am not going to pretend missing the playoffs is a certainty. but you said it, a lot has to go right for the Flames to make it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

First I want to say that anything is possible. I am not going to pretend missing the playoffs is a certainty. but you said it, a lot has to go right for the Flames to make it.

Seems like pretty much everything went wrong last year, and by that I guess less just needs to go wrong this year if they don't trade the key assets before camp.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Imagine getting the cake and eat it too?

Flames are 2nd in their division at the trade deadline and say ... 8 points up on a playoff spot.

Flames show stones and sell off three assets for futures.

Hang on to make the playoffs and get ownership three games of gate receipts.

I’d love to be surprised, but I just don’t see it playing out like that. If the Flames are securely in a playoff spot, the day after the deadline they’ll hold a press conference to say they felt they owed it to the guys in the room to keep everyone together and go on a run in the playoffs, trying to build a culture, etc. etc. And when most of the UFAs walk in the offseason, fans will switch gears and say we should look at the bright side and all the flexibility that the cap space will give us.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Imagine getting the cake and eat it too?

Flames are 2nd in their division at the trade deadline and say ... 8 points up on a playoff spot.

Flames show stones and sell off three assets for futures.

Hang on to make the playoffs and get ownership three games of gate receipts.

I think 2nd in the division is a stretch for becoming a seller.

But I'm on a similar page. I absolutely have thought all summer with the 3 big contracts issued last offseason, this team is not in a position to do a full scale rebuild for 3-4 years at minimum. If you tank now and get top 5 picks for 2-3 years, those 3 will still be taking up big cap space as the young guys come off their ECLs. In 3-4 years their contracts might be short enough to trade, or they can ride those high salaries through some top pick ELCs. So the reality is, like it or not the Flames are looking at re-tool mode, and they are looking at Huberdeau, Kadri, Weeger and Andersson as their core.

For me that means.

Best case scenario, walk into the season with a bunch of UFAs, everyone rebounds, the Flames win the cup, last years stink washes off this team, they can sign some nice deals in the offseason cause this looks like a team going places again, and if the mid level player walk after a cup win, thats OK other teams will probably overpay them anyways. Capsapce has become a zero sum game, the more bad contracts other teams have, they easier it is for you to hit a home run in a trade.

Second Best, walk into the season with a bunch of UFAs, hit the trade deadline on the right side of the playoff bubble, because players have had a decent season sell off any/all off Mangipane, Backlund, Coleman, Dube, Hanifin, Tanev, Zadorov, for picks / slight NHL downgrades. Flames stock the prospect cupboard earlier with longer development players that match our cores timeline better, and hopefully maintain a respectable enough team to hang on for some playoff action. (don't sell Lindholm, because you don't trade your #1 center while holding a playoff spot, contract situation be damned).

Second worst scenario, they panic and sell off Backlund, Lindholm, Hanifin during training camp below market value, because they don't want to relive 2022. The team is neither good enough to compete, nor ready for a full rebuild, because of the big contracts at the core.

Worst scenario, they resign guys like Dube, Tanev, Zadorov right now to avoid the shear number of expiring contracts, and we still don't know if this group can wash away the stink of last year, but we are stuck with a smaller level of player turnover than another stinky season would demand.

[NewFan]

"Making the playoff-and will see" shouldn't be team's goal!
When we saw last time the surprise team won the cup?
Its very difficult to win with luck when playoffs are four series.

[Chonger]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Seems like pretty much everything went wrong last year, and by that I guess less just needs to go wrong this year if they don't trade the key assets before camp.

Everything would have to go right to battle for 14th-16th. You are praying for magic if you think this roster could win a round. This is of course, like, just my opinion man!

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Chonger

Everything would have to go right to battle for 14th-16th. You are praying for magic if you think this roster could win a round. This is of course, like, just my opinion man!

As I said I think we saw pretty much everything go wrong last year ... so less wrong would put them firmly in the mix.

They don't need magic or for everything to go right.

Currently they're down Toffoli and have added young pieces replacing aging veterans.

I'm not a "love this team" or "they're a contender" guy at all, but I don't see that huge a shopping list for the Flames to be a playoff team.

Markstrom and Huberdeau back to their averages for 5 years almost does it alone. Add in upgrade to the third and fourth line through youth, and a smidge of one goal game puck luck and it's almost a given (caveat being moving assets before camp)

[Enoch Root]

Just catching up on this thread... man, some of you are terrible negotiators. Of course, no one is throwing away all their top prospects to acquire Hanifin. But the flipside is that if the deal doesn't cause some pain on the other side, you are not getting value. No way the Flames should accept a proposal like 1st + Maata + avg prospect - they can do better than that at the deadline, without breaking a sweat.

There is value in acquiring Hanifin before the season starts, as that allows the team to integrate him into the system all year. That should add a premium to the deal. A fair deal (now) is to start with a deadline valuation, add a premium for getting him now, and maybe add a bit of a topper if there is some salary dump coming back.

But some of these garbage proposals being thrown around are non-starters.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by NewFan

"Making the playoff-and will see" shouldn't be team's goal!
When we saw last time the surprise team won the cup?
Its very difficult to win with luck when playoffs are four series.

Frankly, for me, Vegas was a bit of a surprise. Not by the end, but if you told me preseason, I'd have taken a bet against. They missed the POs the season before, Eichel didn't look great in his games, Stone looked to be a shell of his former self and their goaltending was a huge unknown. Even through the season, they didn't have one PPG player, and while Thompson played great, he got injured and even if that didn't happen, he was technically a rookie I think.

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't like idea of being full scale sellers at the deadline if the team is firmly in a playoff position. I just think it sends a bad message to the remaining players and potential future free agents if you you tell them it doesn't matter if they bust their ass to be competitive all season just to pull the rug out from under them near the finish line, because business is business. Sure, you risk losing players for nothing, but the future opportunity cost could be worse if you get the reputation among players that your team isn't serious about winning. It's pretty much something you would expect from a franchise like the Coyotes.

I am fine going into the season with players unsigned though because I am not optimistic about playoff chances anyway, and I think there will be more value at the trade deadline, but it is a risk.

Having said that, some selling at the deadline could work if you can make get players under contract that can make an impact at that time and not just futures. It would be less demoralizing for the players on longer term deals.

[TheIronMaiden]

at this rate the division is more or less has a set top three. LAK, LVGK and EDNG. The Flames are sniffing around a wild card spot at best.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Chonger

Everything would have to go right to battle for 14th-16th. You are praying for magic if you think this roster could win a round. This is of course, like, just my opinion man!

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Everything went wrong last year (and then some!) and they just missed.

Any kind of reasonable bounce-back year, and the playoffs are a pretty good bet (highly likely, IMO)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

at this rate the division is more or less has a set top three. LAK, LVGK and EDNG. The Flames are sniffing around a wild card spot at best.

A bounce-back Flames team is competitive with LA and EDM. Vegas is strong, but many of their key players are still an injury risk. I would list them as the favourites to win the division, going into the season, but they are far from a certainty.

The Pacific is wide open, IMO