How much damage did Covid do?

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Acey

One of the frustrating things about losing my dad to COVID was hearing people say that the disesase isn't real, it's just the flu, etc. Hearing daily updates from the doctors about my dad's lungs being obliterated in the ICU for a month with the simultaneous rhetoric of the disease being fake was tough.

Nobody ever tells anybody with cancer their disease isn't real.

Or the view that people who were sick/at risk are just old with pre-existing conditions, basically write them off as just about to die regardless of COVID. "Oh well."

[timun]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Or the view that people who were sick/at risk are just old with pre-existing conditions, basically write them off as just about to die regardless of COVID. "Oh well."

My dad felt that way early on, but after a frank conversation with me he changed his mind pretty quick. His opinion was, roughly, "If the virus disproportionately affects old people and people with pre-existing conditions that make them more susceptible to infection and/or bad reactions, why don't we shut away all the old folks and other health-compromised folks while we let it rip through the otherwise healthy population?"

I reminded him, "Okay, that said, you're in your sixties, right?"

"Yes."

"Diabetic."

"Yes..."

"Which makes you immunocompromised. Congrats dad: you are one of the old, sickly people we'd lock away."

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by blankall

Based on my own experience with putting my daughter into daycare, there's no way that anyone could ever convince me that schools did not spread Covid, or any other communicable virus. My daughter brought a new virus home every few weeks for her first 6 months or so in daycare. Non-stop runny nose.

The bit about kids not being carriers for Covid was garbage too. She had covid twice, both times with easily observable symptoms. She spread it to my wife.

Yeah, that was always a weird narrative that they were pushing. I get the thought behind it, because other than healthcare and essential services, in-person schooling is probably the most important thing to keep going because of its societal benefit. But no one was trying to argue that COVID wouldn't spread in any of those other places, just that the risk with mitigation measures in place was significantly outweighed by the benefit. So I'm not sure why they felt the need to try to act like schools didn't meaningfully contribute to the spread.

I mean, my wife is a teacher and basically her entire school's infection patterns were dictated by what class the kids were in, and even within the classes by where they sat. It was abundantly clear that other than through siblings, school was the vector for basically everyone's infections there.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by timun

My dad felt that way early on, but after a frank conversation with me he changed his mind pretty quick. His opinion was, roughly, "If the virus disproportionately affects old people and people with pre-existing conditions that make them more susceptible to infection and/or bad reactions, why don't we shut away all the old folks and other health-compromised folks while we let it rip through the otherwise healthy population?"

I reminded him, "Okay, that said, you're in your sixties, right?"

"Yes."

"Diabetic."

"Yes..."

"Which makes you immunocompromised. Congrats dad: you are one of the old, sickly people we'd lock away."

Sweden tried that and ended up with almost twice as many deaths per capita than Canada

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that what he was getting at here with the non-medical side of things is that there was a high "societal cost". There are still ongoing, significant ramifications and repercussions reverberating through North America. I listed to a podcast a few weeks ago (This American Life) about Florida. Some people were moving there, specifically because of their perceptions of it being more free, while others were leaving due to the politics.

No matter which side you were on, it can't really be argued that there are enormous changes that came about due to Covid and it's handling. People who were away from family across the border or in other countries are no longer as willing to take that risk in case another pandemic occurs. They've sold properties elsewhere specifically because of the border, and while we all might have our opinion on these things, look no further than Gaudreau moving to Columbus.

The sheer distrust of authority and experts has definitely seen a huge rise over the past few years. Then you have the overreach of government in some of the actions taken, and the ongoing ramifications of that. It's just not something that you undo overnight.

I have thought about this lately as well, because it sure seems like we have caused a lot of damage in some areas.

I find it absolutely horrifying that you're some sort of elected official with decision making capacity.

[Sainters7]

I doubt inflation would be so out of control right now if it wasn't for Covid, so yeah that really sucks as well.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Sweden tried that and ended up with almost twice as many deaths per capita than Canada

yeah at first it did, but overtime it evened out. So considering Sweden had far less restrictions on their population id say that was a win for Sweden.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...sitivity=false

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

Based on my own experience with putting my daughter into daycare, there's no way that anyone could ever convince me that schools did not spread Covid, or any other communicable virus. My daughter brought a new virus home every few weeks for her first 6 months or so in daycare. Non-stop runny nose.

The bit about kids not being carriers for Covid was garbage too. She had covid twice, both times with easily observable symptoms. She spread it to my wife.

Nobody claimed there was zero spread through schools. The question is if the reduction in infection from closing in-person schooling was worth the long-term learning loss.

People shouldn’t look to folk wisdom and personal experience with colds and flus to inform behaviour around covid. Different viruses behave differently. Pre-omicron, children contracted and spread covid at significantly lower rates than adults. This was well-documented by virologists. Remember - trust the experts.

Children and young people are around 40% per cent less likely to be infected than adults when exposed to someone with the virus, finds a new study of global Covid-19 transmission data, co-led by UCL researchers.

In this study, published in JAMA Pediatrics, the researchers have updated their previous systematic review* and meta-analysis, published as a preprint in May**, to encompass more than 13,900 studies, to understand how likely it is that children catch Covid-19 (known as susceptibility) and whether they pass it on to others (known as transmission or infectiousness).

Lead author Professor Russell Viner (UCL Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health) said: “We have now assessed twice as many COVID-19 contact-tracing and population screening studies, providing more robust data and conclusions.

“Our findings show children under 12 to 14 years appear significantly less likely to contract COVID-19 from infected others.

“Data for teenagers are less clear and we must therefore assume they are as susceptible as adults. Susceptibility is a key part of the chain of infection, and our findings support the view that children are likely to play a smaller role in transmitting the virus and proliferating the pandemic, although considerable uncertainty remains.

“This new data provides further essential evidence to governments around the world to inform their decision-making on keeping schools open during the pandemic.”

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/sep/...catch-covid-19

Post-omicron, everyone was spreading covid at dramatically higher rates than earlier variants. That’s when we saw widespread infection through schools, and pretty much everywhere else. At that point there was little point in social distancing (my dad caught covid twice in a nursing home that had extremely stringent social distancing and quarantine measures), only in getting the vaccine to reduce the strain on the health care system by reducing the severity of infections.

[TorqueDog]

Covid is currently ravaging the provincial politics thread.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

I doubt inflation would be so out of control right now if it wasn't for Covid, so yeah that really sucks as well.

....you think?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Acey

One of the frustrating things about losing my dad to COVID was hearing people say that the disesase isn't real, it's just the flu, etc. Hearing daily updates from the doctors about my dad's lungs being obliterated in the ICU for a month with the simultaneous rhetoric of the disease being fake was tough.

Nobody ever tells anybody with cancer their disease isn't real.

That is tough. My mom died of cancer eventually but was put in the hospital with Covid. So she had it coming both ways, people saying the Covid was not real and then the Premier blaming her for getting cancer. The world is getting stupider by the day, that is my Covid takeaway.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

That is tough. My mom died of cancer eventually but was put in the hospital with Covid. So she had it coming both ways, people saying the Covid was not real and then the Premier blaming her for getting cancer. The world is getting stupider by the day, that is my Covid takeaway.

Sorry for your loss. Even coming to work made it hard, bunch of right wing anti-vax idiots. Documenting the whole ordeal on this board in the personal covid thread helped more than anything.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Covid is currently ravaging the provincial politics thread.

I hardly ever go in there, thats a thread that needs to be quarantined and welded shut from the outside.

'tis a silly place!

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

yeah at first it did, but overtime it evened out. So considering Sweden had far less restrictions on their population id say that was a win for Sweden.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...sitivity=false

I would say that looks like Swedish policies lead to a lot of people dying right away with there being little to no difference now that all restrictions are gone. I would be interested to see what the data would say in terms of lives years lost would indicate. At the end of the day what that sort of indicates to me is that we are all still mortal beings.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Slava

I doubt it. People were up in arms last fall and pushing for measures in schools. There were plenty of people not ready to relax measures and keep schools closed. I have to think they'd mount pressure again.

100%, right around November / December this year there will inevitably be people coming out of the woodwork asking for mask mandates, capacity restrictions and the like.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

I hardly ever go in there, thats a thread that needs to be quarantined and welded shut from the outside.

'tis a silly place!

Since shortly after the election, I've also stopped going there and I haven't gotten Covid during that time so, I guess, it's a good thing.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I would say that looks like Swedish policies lead to a lot of people dying right away with there being little to no difference now that all restrictions are gone. I would be interested to see what the data would say in terms of lives years lost would indicate. At the end of the day what that sort of indicates to me is that we are all still mortal beings.

That graph is cumulative excess deaths, so it shows that overall the amount of excess deaths are the same, just taken at different times.

You are right though it doesn't indicate any sort of long term impacts on lifespan. That will take time to know

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by blankall

....you think?

106 posts to that point & it hadn't come up yet, someone had to!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

yeah at first it did, but overtime it evened out. So considering Sweden had far less restrictions on their population id say that was a win for Sweden.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...sitivity=false

Sweden after the first wave didn’t really have lesss restrictions though. They capitulated pretty quickly. The real winners were Australia though they screwed up vaccine procurement.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

100%, right around November / December this year there will inevitably be people coming out of the woodwork asking for mask mandates, capacity restrictions and the like.

Lol.