[Trade] Flames trade Toffoli to NJ for RFA rights to Sharangovich and 80th OA

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Is the AHL even the 5th best league in the world?

Regardless, saying they’re “prioritizing” the failures of last season is a bit much. Conroy has said that the only thing left for Wolf to prove is that he doesn’t belong in the NHL, and there is absolutely nothing pointing towards Wolf’s development being anything but their top priority.

Uhh... I think it is fairly obviously the 3rd best league. NHL, KHL, AHL... what leagues that you think are better than AHL have more NHL level talent?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Uhh... I think it is fairly obviously the 3rd best league. NHL, KHL, AHL... what leagues that you think are better than AHL have more NHL level talent?

I think the SHL is better than the AHL. Obviously, lots of talent goes through the AHL, but by virtue of the fact it is a farm league the best players don't stay there long. As for veterans, the AHL might get a few north American lifers, but the SHL now more than ever gets the bulk of players 24 and up who couldn't make the show.

The best evidence for the SHL being better is looking at how the AHL has competed against other leagues. In 2013 the Rochester American went to the spangler cup and lost every game. They got tuned 5-0 by a swiss club.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHL_pa...e_Spengler_Cup

[cral12]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think the SHL is better than the AHL. Obviously, lots of talent goes through the AHL, but by virtue of the fact it is a farm league the best players don't stay there long. As for veterans, the AHL might get a few north American lifers, but the SHL now more than ever gets the bulk of players 24 and up who couldn't make the show.

The best evidence for the SHL being better is looking at how the AHL has competed against other leagues. In 2013 the Rochester American went to the spangler cup and lost every game. They got tuned 5-0 by a swiss club.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHL_pa...e_Spengler_Cup

This supports:
NHL Equivalency and Prospect Projection Models: Building the NHL Equivalency Model
https://towardsdatascience.com/nhl-e...-2-6f275a45e22

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think the SHL is better than the AHL. Obviously, lots of talent goes through the AHL, but by virtue of the fact it is a farm league the best players don't stay there long. As for veterans, the AHL might get a few north American lifers, but the SHL now more than ever gets the bulk of players 24 and up who couldn't make the show.

The best evidence for the SHL being better is looking at how the AHL has competed against other leagues. In 2013 the Rochester American went to the spangler cup and lost every game. They got tuned 5-0 by a swiss club.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHL_pa...e_Spengler_Cup

Playing on Int'l ice, and the only team playing well out of their usual time zone (but maybe Rochester had plenty of time to adapt?)

They lost 4-3 to CSKA Moscow (2nd in KHL; notables incl Radulov, Frolov, Zaitsev, Morozov, Saprykin, and even 43 yo Fedorov)

They lost 6-3 to Team Canada (lead by Byron Ritchie!)


Rochester was pretty much the median team in the AHL that year (2nd worst team to make playoffs).

Geneva (the 5-0 loss) ended up winning the whole tournament with Matthew Lombardi potting 8 points in only 3 of the 4 games (Lombardi lead that league in scoring that year, his first out of the NHL...dude was built for int'l ice!). Geneva was about the 3rd or 4th in their league.


It all seems pretty close to me. Given ice size and play style, I think it's fair to say AHL is as relevant and competitive a league as any in relation to the NHL

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cral12

This supports:
NHL Equivalency and Prospect Projection Models: Building the NHL Equivalency Model
https://towardsdatascience.com/nhl-e...-2-6f275a45e22

That feels about right to me.

I definitely had the SHL, KHL, and Czech league in mind when I asked if the AHL was even 5th.

A good, competitive league, obviously. But definitely not the second best league next to the NHL.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Playing on Int'l ice, and the only team playing well out of their usual time zone (but maybe Rochester had plenty of time to adapt?)

They lost 4-3 to CSKA Moscow (2nd in KHL; notables incl Radulov, Frolov, Zaitsev, Morozov, Saprykin, and even 43 yo Fedorov)

They lost 6-3 to Team Canada (lead by Byron Ritchie!)


Rochester was pretty much the median team in the AHL that year (2nd worst team to make playoffs).

Geneva (the 5-0 loss) ended up winning the whole tournament with Matthew Lombardi potting 8 points in only 3 of the 4 games (Lombardi lead that league in scoring that year, his first out of the NHL...dude was built for int'l ice!). Geneva was about the 3rd or 4th in their league.


It all seems pretty close to me. Given ice size and play style, I think it's fair to say AHL is as relevant and competitive a league as any in relation to the NHL

Yeah, the AHL is relevant and competitive, but it's primary purpose is player development. Being the 4th or 5th best hockey league is nothing to sneeze at. There are heaps of really strong hockey leagues in the world. Making the AHL is an accomplishment, but not a primary destination for top European, or north American players whose NHL window has closed.

The SHL has a relegation system. As such only the best teams remain in the league. It is always the 14 best teams in Sweden. Conversely the AHL always has 32 teams ya that year they went to the spangler cup they sent a middling team, but that team was better than half the league no?

Sure Genève-Servette HC won the spangler cup, but they were only 4th in their league, making the semi finals. The swiss league is demonstrably worse than the SHL. The SHL almost always wins the champions hockey league.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E...314_NLA_season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_Hockey_League

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Yeah, the AHL is relevant and competitive, but it's primary purpose is player development. Being the 4th or 5th best hockey league is nothing to sneeze at. There are heaps of really strong hockey leagues in the world. Making the AHL is an accomplishment, but not a primary destination for top European, or north American players whose NHL window has closed.

The SHL has a relegation system. As such only the best teams remain in the league. It is always the 14 best teams in Sweden. Conversely the AHL always has 32 teams ya that year they went to the spangler cup they sent a middling team, but that team was better than half the league no?

Sure Genève-Servette HC won the spangler cup, but they were only 4th in their league, making the semi finals. The swiss league is demonstrably worse than the SHL. The SHL almost always wins the champions hockey league.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E...314_NLA_season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_Hockey_League

That's a very good point. The number of teams in a league also really makes a difference. For instance, the WHL hasn't won the Memorial Cup in almost 10 years but if the league had 18 teams (like the Q) instead of 22 they would probably win more often because there'd be less deadweight on each team.

[dustygoon]

Someone's been working out....

https://twitter.com/user/status/1693660738135707769

[Johnny Makarov]

I hope that is in Canada and not Mother Belarus.

Are there going to be problems for Russians coming back to North America this year?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

I hope that is in Canada and not Mother Belarus.

Are there going to be problems for Russians coming back to North America this year?

Not sure I get why the country in which the picture is taken matters.

Z didn't go to Russia this year because he didn't want any problems. Belarus doesn't have any restrictions.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Not sure I get why the country in which the picture is taken matters.

Z didn't go to Russia this year because he didn't want any problems. Belarus doesn't have any restrictions.

Oh I just didn't want him to get stuck there. but if there are no restrictions....Belarus looks lovely! lol

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Not sure I get why the country in which the picture is taken matters.

Z didn't go to Russia this year because he didn't want any problems. Belarus doesn't have any restrictions.

From USA state dept today....

Do not travel to Belarus due to Belarusian authorities’ continued facilitation of Russia’s unprovoked attack on Ukraine, the buildup of Russian military forces in Belarus, the arbitrary enforcement of local laws, the potential of civil unrest, the risk of detention, and the Embassy’s limited ability to assist U.S. citizens residing in or traveling to Belarus.

U.S. citizens in Belarus should depart immediately. Consider departing via the remaining border crossings with Lithuania and Latvia, or by plane. U.S. citizens are not permitted to enter Poland overland from Belarus. Do not travel to Russia or to Ukraine.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

I hope that is in Canada and not Mother Belarus.

Are there going to be problems for Russians coming back to North America this year?

There is a life jacket on the board - it's definitely Canada!

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

From USA state dept today....

This is surprising

U.S. citizens are not permitted to enter Poland overland from Belarus.

I thought Americans could travel the EU visa-free?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

From USA state dept today....

Okay let me rephrase. Sharangovich is not a US citizen. It's his home country. From my knowledge the Belarussian government didn't restrict the movement of it's citizens in and out of the country. Moreover, NHLers don't currently have problems getting work visas.

As for the Russian troops buildup, that's just posturing after Prigozhin was exiled to Belarus. I personally didn't hear anything about actual unrest.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There is a life jacket on the board - it's definitely Canada!

Good thing too. Looking at that photo, the dude probably sinks like a rock.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

This is surprising



I thought Americans could travel the EU visa-free?

I think that a return ticket is required when you fly into Europe(someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'm guessing that the European countries can't be sure the person will leave it he/she enters by land.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There is a life jacket on the board - it's definitely Canada!

His Instagram says it's in Minsk...

[ComixZone]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1693701808521085113

High danger chance generation and carries strike me as filling a need for the Flames.

...the defence is certainly of concern.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think the SHL is better than the AHL. Obviously, lots of talent goes through the AHL, but by virtue of the fact it is a farm league the best players don't stay there long. As for veterans, the AHL might get a few north American lifers, but the SHL now more than ever gets the bulk of players 24 and up who couldn't make the show.

The best evidence for the SHL being better is looking at how the AHL has competed against other leagues. In 2013 the Rochester American went to the spangler cup and lost every game. They got tuned 5-0 by a swiss club.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHL_pa...e_Spengler_Cup

on big ice against teams with some old balls players

doesn't really conclude anything