[Trade] Flames trade Toffoli to NJ for RFA rights to Sharangovich and 80th OA - Page 56 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

TrentCrimmIndependent · 07-30-2023, 01:34 PM

Who's betting against Wolf at this point because of 1-2"?

Lol.

Jiri Hrdina · 07-30-2023, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Who's betting against Wolf at this point because of 1-2"?

Lol.

No one is betting against him.
The question is where he ranks amongst the elite goaltending prospects.

dustygoon · 07-30-2023, 01:56 PM

Got some cross talk between two threads.

Need to merge this Sharangovich thread with the trade rumours thread, so we can get all the “is Wolf the best G prospect” and “does Wolf deserve backup role” chat into one spot. Then rename the Wolf thread the Bennett thread and call it a day!

OptimalTates · 07-30-2023, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Then rename the Wolf thread the Bennett thread and call it a day!

Fun fact about Bennett, he was the highest Flames draft pick ever until this summer when they drafted Suniev.

Jimdon · 07-30-2023, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Size is more of a factor with goalies than any other position. NHL snipers today are so accurate that even an extra inch or two of open net is enough to exploit.

Wolf’s anticipation and athleticism may compensate for those extra inches. But the jury is out until he has a body of work playing against elite NHL snipers.

It's true that you don't know what you don't know and goalies really are unpredictable.

But for a team that had bottom of the league goaltending last year but had a prospect that has won every award he could have in the 2nd best league in the world choosing to prioritize the failures of last season over the unknowns of next season seems pretty cowardly.

PepsiFree · 07-30-2023, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimdon

It's true that you don't know what you don't know and goalies really are unpredictable.

But for a team that had bottom of the league goaltending last year but had a prospect that has won every award he could have in the 2nd best league in the world choosing to prioritize the failures of last season over the unknowns of next season seems pretty cowardly.

Is the AHL even the 5th best league in the world?

Regardless, saying they’re “prioritizing” the failures of last season is a bit much. Conroy has said that the only thing left for Wolf to prove is that he doesn’t belong in the NHL, and there is absolutely nothing pointing towards Wolf’s development being anything but their top priority.

Kipper_3434 · 07-30-2023, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No one is betting against him.
The question is where he ranks amongst the elite goaltending prospects.

Currently, top 3 at minimum.

Jiri Hrdina · 07-30-2023, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Currently, top 3 at minimum.

Agreed I have him #3.

Sandman · 07-30-2023, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Agreed I have him #3.

Me too, and there's nothing wrong with having the third-best goalie prospect in the world in your system. Hasn't happened much in Flames history.

DoubleK · 07-30-2023, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandman

Me too, and there's nothing wrong with having the third-best goalie prospect in the world in your system. Hasn't happened much in Flames history.

*Trevor Kidd enters the chat*

Sandman · 07-30-2023, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK

*Trevor Kidd enters the chat*

There's also maybe JS Giguere. I don't think Krahn or Irving were ever ranked that high, but I could be wrong....

redmile04 · 07-30-2023, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandman

There's also maybe JS Giguere. I don't think Krahn or Irving were ever ranked that high, but I could be wrong....

Parsons also.

Sandman · 07-30-2023, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmile04

Parsons also.

I don't think Parsons was ever considered the 3rd best goalie prospect, but again- I could be wrong.

edslunch · 07-30-2023, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, Suniev was a 3rd round pick - saying you ranked him higher doesn't change that it was still a 3rd round pick. However, let's also remember - and concede - that this was an incredibly deep draft, and the 3rd round pick was worth much more than a typical 3rd (many scouts suggest Suniev would be a late 1st or early 2nd in most drafts). So simply saying the return for Toffoli was Sharangovich + 3rd, is also a bit misleading, because this 3rd was not like most 3rds.

As for Suniev specifically, the Flames did have him ranked much higher, and had his name on a jersey for their 2nd round pick - so suggesting he's more of a 2nd round pick is not at all unreasonable (both sides of that argument are valid).

And no, they did not have a nameplate for Morin, as they did not think he would make it to 48. They were going to take Suniev, but pivoted to Morin when he was still available. Then got Suniev at 80, regardless.

And yes, to the poster that said they probably take the same players if they got NJ's 45 instead of 80, yes, they would have taken Morin at 45 and Suniev at 48.

That’s why we need to separate the trade and the draft. Sharangovich and a third is a disappointing return, but seems to be the market. I don’t believe we should consider the 3rd as a second just because it was a good draft class. It’s still the 80th best pick this draft.

Now, I believe the Flames may have gotten a steal with who they picked, and got a better, potentially much better than the 80th best player. So overall the net situation is ok, but it still doesn’t change the fact that the trade itself was underwhelming.

Paulie Walnuts · 07-30-2023, 11:14 PM

Who are the 2 ahead of Wolf?

SeanCharles · 07-30-2023, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Who are the 2 ahead of Wolf?

Probably Askarov and Wallstadt, if one had to guess.

Scroopy Noopers · 07-30-2023, 11:37 PM

Levi, Wallstadt, Wolf for me. In that order but essentially even.

Macindoc · 07-31-2023, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edslunch

That’s why we need to separate the trade and the draft. Sharangovich and a third is a disappointing return, but seems to be the market. I don’t believe we should consider the 3rd as a second just because it was a good draft class. It’s still the 80th best pick this draft.

Now, I believe the Flames may have gotten a steal with who they picked, and got a better, potentially much better than the 80th best player. So overall the net situation is ok, but it still doesn’t change the fact that the trade itself was underwhelming.

The truth is somewhere in between. A 3rd round pick in a historically strong draft is probably equivalent to a mid 2nd round draft in most other draft years, regardless of the player taken.

Thor · 07-31-2023, 02:48 AM

ForeverFlameFan · 07-31-2023, 06:35 AM

They’re all pretty even, but doing my best not to be biased when I see the numbers Wolf has put up. Hard to argue he isn’t #1. Just because he’s a 7th round pick doesn’t downplay when he’s done. He’s dominated every league he’s played in, he’s absolutely #1 in my books. That’s not downplaying the other top goalie prospects, Wolf is just that good.