Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I got it from a pretty good source back in the day that Stajan and Giordano both told Treliving (separately) that Hartley was absolutely ruining the Flames younger players, and spoke to Bennett specifically.

That if you wanted to develop your youth Hartley had to go, because his mind games with the younger players.

Bennett stories around telling him why he wasn't playing center or playing with good players (say faceoffs), only to have Bennett work his ass off to fix the issue, and then be told another reason.

Seems to fit the Stajan comments pretty closely.

Clearly I can't vouch for the story myself.

We’ve also heard the Baertschi stories where Hartley would relentlessly pick on the kid to the point of tears, and SOB had to step in.

The more stories we hear, the more I look at the Flames as always hiring the wrong guy at the wrong time. Even when we find some level of success, the relationship between coaches and players seems to be a pretty significant part as to why that season of “success” always ends up being a one-off.

I really hope Huska and Conroy are turning the page for the organization, but the fact that both of them are effectively products of the organization seems like a bit of a challenge.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I got it from a pretty good source back in the day that Stajan and Giordano both told Treliving (separately) that Hartley was absolutely ruining the Flames younger players, and spoke to Bennett specifically.

That if you wanted to develop your youth Hartley had to go, because his mind games with the younger players.

Bennett stories around telling him why he wasn't playing center or playing with good players (say faceoffs), only to have Bennett work his ass off to fix the issue, and then be told another reason.

Seems to fit the Stajan comments pretty closely.

Clearly I can't vouch for the story myself.

That is interesting and then you end up with Darryl Sutter, who ends up doing the same stupid ####.

[CliffFletcher]

Hartley may well have been an egregious ####### even by NHL coach standards.

But let’s not kid ourselves about the nature of pro sports and team chemistry. Virtually all teams have cliques, virtually all coaches play favourites, and on virtually all teams some players get along with the coach and others don’t like him. Including the Flames team that won the Cup.

[GioforPM]

I wouldn't dismiss the opinons of Warrener and especially Stajan on the basis that they were "bubble players" (they weren't anyway). They were solid pros who played for different teams and carved out nice careers. I'd take their opinions on a coach over an elite player who probably got treated under different rules. Plus it seems like the likes of Backlund and Gio were of the same opinion.

I agree with Estrada - there's a lot of defending of really bad behaviour here, and it's weird to me that one fluke season can have so much impact on opinion. Or maybe it was the public persona - one of those two players said media Hartkey was 180 degrees from dressing room Hartley.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Hartley may well have been an egregious ####### even by NHL coach standards.

But let’s not kid ourselves about the nature of pro sports and team chemistry. Virtually all teams have cliques, virtually all coaches play favourites, and on virtually all teams some players get along with the coach and others don’t like him. Including the Flames team that won the Cup.

Who is kidding themselves? Is anyone even suggesting any of those things?

It’s just yet another story about Hartley being an absolutely brutal person, like we’ve heard before, from another guy who experienced it first hand. Not sure why we need to point out the “nature of pro sports” when the example is clearly unique.

[dustygoon]

How do I listen to the whole thing? Seems there are parts to the interview and that link is one part or is it the whole thing?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I got it from a pretty good source back in the day that Stajan and Giordano both told Treliving (separately) that Hartley was absolutely ruining the Flames younger players, and spoke to Bennett specifically.

That if you wanted to develop your youth Hartley had to go, because his mind games with the younger players.

Bennett stories around telling him why he wasn't playing center or playing with good players (say faceoffs), only to have Bennett work his ass off to fix the issue, and then be told another reason.

Seems to fit the Stajan comments pretty closely.

Clearly I can't vouch for the story myself.

The Bennett one is interesting as Stajan singled him out as a person who should have been scratched among other young players to give them a kick in the ass.

Glad the team is moving in the right direction with this coaching staff.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I got it from a pretty good source back in the day that Stajan and Giordano both told Treliving (separately) that Hartley was absolutely ruining the Flames younger players, and spoke to Bennett specifically.

That if you wanted to develop your youth Hartley had to go, because his mind games with the younger players.

Bennett stories around telling him why he wasn't playing center or playing with good players (say faceoffs), only to have Bennett work his ass off to fix the issue, and then be told another reason.

Seems to fit the Stajan comments pretty closely.

Clearly I can't vouch for the story myself.

Perhaps somebody is misremembering something. Bennett’s rookie season was Hartley’s last season, 2015-16. I don’t think anyone was displeased with his performance.

The subsequent coach gave Tkachuk the slot with Backlund and Frolik and it was at that point where they came up short finding a role or slot for Bennett

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Perhaps somebody is misremembering something. Bennett’s rookie season was Hartley’s last season, 2015-16. I don’t think anyone was displeased with his performance.

The subsequent coach gave Tkachuk the slot with Backlund and Frolik and it was at that point where they came up short finding a role or slot for Bennett

Not sure what you think doesn't line up.

Bennett played his first full season with Hartley.
Veterans suggested he was hard on young players and would ruin them.
Said veterans also suggested Hartley wasn't the right guy for young players going forward.

Bennett was clearly a young player in his rookie season.

Those were the facts at the time and what I said was told to me.

Didn't say other coaches were squeaky clean or that Bennett himself wasn't responsible for subsequent seasons.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure what you think doesn't line up.

Bennett played his first full season with Hartley.
Veterans suggested he was hard on young players and would ruin them.
Said veterans also suggested Hartley wasn't the right guy for young players going forward.

Bennett was clearly a young player in his rookie season.

If we are trying to establish the point that Bennett was young, well sure, he was 18 years old

The mixed messaging and player mishandling in his case was apparent in subsequent years

There was little controversy over his rookie season which was by all accounts pretty decent

Seems like a narrative being retrofitted

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

If we are trying to establish the point that Bennett was young, well sure, he was 18 years old

The mixed messaging and player mishandling in his case was apparent in subsequent years

There was little controversy over his rookie season which was by all accounts pretty decent

Seems like a narrative being retrofitted

How would someone retrofit a narrative when the narrative came from that time?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

If we are trying to establish the point that Bennett was young, well sure, he was 18 years old

The mixed messaging and player mishandling in his case was apparent in subsequent years

There was little controversy over his rookie season which was by all accounts pretty decent

Seems like a narrative being retrofitted

Think you have to take a lot of these statements with a grain of salt. Seems the general consensus was that Hartley was a prick. But individual statements could be coming from specific players with a bone to pick.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

How do I listen to the whole thing? Seems there are parts to the interview and that link is one part or is it the whole thing?

Like the Regehr interview they're split into three parts with a new one being released each day.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

How would someone retrofit a narrative when the narrative came from that time?

I honestly am not sure why this is confusing

Bennett played 1 year for Hartley. I understood at the time that the team and player were pleased with the results and progression

Subsequent years saw Gulutzan and then Peters not give the guy a well defined role. Now Bingo is saying that it was under Hartley that Bennett was not given direction

It seems like the player’s productivity stall and frustration with lack of direction came under the subsequent coaches

The narrative about Bennett’s stalled progression is being retrofit to overlay on the ‘Hartley is a big meanie’ narrative but that’s not where the player got frustrated

At the time Hartley was canned, Bennett’s progression was as far as I am aware not a concern. An 18 year old with 18 goals and 18 assists was pretty decent and I don’t recall any accounts about him being disgruntled

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

If we are trying to establish the point that Bennett was young, well sure, he was 18 years old

The mixed messaging and player mishandling in his case was apparent in subsequent years

There was little controversy over his rookie season which was by all accounts pretty decent

Seems like a narrative being retrofitted

I'm just passing on what I heard from a credible source at the time.

Isn't this more a Hartley fan trying to discount something that doesn't fit their narrative?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just passing on what I heard from a credible source at the time.

Isn't this more a Hartley fan trying to discount something that doesn't fit their narrative?

Not really. Just asking based on the inconsistency if maybe somebody was misremembering some details

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Not really. Just asking based on the inconsistency if maybe somebody was misremembering some details

Two vets players went to the GM (or he came to them) suggesting Hartley was harmful to the development of young players, and specifically talked about mind games and moving the goal posts.

It doesn't change that story at all if other coaches after made mistakes in giving the guy a role, or if the guy himself was to blame for not seizing later opportunities.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Two vets players went to the GM (or he came to them) suggesting Hartley was harmful to the development of young players, and specifically talked about mind games and moving the goal posts.

It doesn't change that story at all if other coaches after made mistakes in giving the guy a role, or if the guy himself was to blame for not seizing later opportunities.

And the specific example you cited wasn’t a player about whose development there was generally accepted concern at the time

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And the specific example you cited wasn’t a player about whose development there was generally accepted concern at the time

From the outside. Doesn’t mean other players or Bennett himself didn’t have some concerns or confusion.

[jayswin]

Yeah, it could easily be that Bennett scored some goals as a hot rookie but was also weathered down and ruined a bit as the year went on by Hartley, which then bled into a lack of confidence going forward under other coaches.

To me Bingo's story from his source is easily believable.