Teachers are at the end of their rope.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Slava

You know who it's really a negative for? Parents and students!

The truth is, we all know it's hard to fire teachers who are poor performers or incompetent. We've all dealt with teachers who are basically coasting and riding it out until retirement, with no real solution to that problem. Other teachers deal with it, and of course students and parents as well.

Maybe things are different in Calgary but having multiple kids going through the system and having worked at multiple schools, I can say no I haven't dealt with these teachers you are describing.

I have heard of many teachers that were fired, not hired, didn't get a permanent contract though because of their incompetence.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by wwkayaker

I know several teachers who have been fired. Three of those teachers lost their certification.

If principals do their due diligence in the first two years of new teacher evaluations, they can avoid some poor teachers. Some teachers who start out strong fade later on which I doubt is exclusive to the teaching profession; I bet a lot of these people aren’t fired too.
.

Just curious , what sort of things cause a teacher to lose their certification ? Just curious what gets a teacher fired and lose their certification

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Aren’t most fields capped out in salary at some point - usually around 10 years of experience? I know mine is. For the last five years I’ve had only cost of living salary increases, and I expect that will be true of the next five years. The only way I’m seeing any substantial increase in my pay at this point in my career is if I pursue a managerial role with more responsibility and longer hours. But teachers have the same option - they can become principals.

Capped out after being there a certain time is much different than capped out on what you can earn to start with.

Teachers will never make more than $100,000 many other jobs start above that even if they get capped after 10 years.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Just curious , what sort of things cause a teacher to lose their certification ? Just curious what gets a teacher fired and lose their certification

You would think lying to children would be a start, but then we have the entire Catholic School System, so that logic fails pretty quickly.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Dismantling the Catholic school board entirely and shifting everything to the CBE would be even better

Except the public board is a complete disaster. If anything, the public board would be better off joining the CCSD.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Just curious , what sort of things cause a teacher to lose their certification ? Just curious what gets a teacher fired and lose their certification

I imagine the threshold for losing their certification would be much higher than it is for just losing their job. It would need to be serious misconduct on their or an obvious inability to perform the tasks required.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I imagine the threshold for losing their certification would be much higher than it is for just losing their job. It would need to be serious misconduct on their or an obvious inability to perform the tasks required.

Agreed which is why I am curious what the 3 people the poster knows lost theirs for! Just curiosity / want to hear the stories !

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GGG

I guess my comment around the matching is that the public’s perception of the difference between a typical professional working in an office with a 3-9% match and potentially other incentives/benefits vs the teachers plan with a 9.5% employeer match is drastically overblown.

And second

Many people don’t want to have the TPP as their pension plan as evidenced by the opposition to CPP increases which is a greater than 100% employer matched defined benefit pension.

A teacher maxxed out on the pay scale is putting away something like $1000 dollars a month directly into the AB teachers pension plan, for the duration of their career. There is no option to alter this or adjust if you are in need of extra money, would like to invest in a different opportunity, or if something unfortunate occurs. Government matching is kind of expected when you're seeing that significant of a chunk of your salary inaccessible for a major portion of your life, specifically the most expensive years raising kids, paying off your mortgage etc.

Presently CCSD teachers are simply trying to get the board to acknowledge and act on discrepancies between their peers in other boards in Alberta and across the country, which directly effect the quality of education they can provide. I'll never understand how some people can be against improving workplace conditions and ultimately delivering better education. This system has been put through the ringer by the UCP over the last decade so every little bit helps to ensure teachers are supported and standards are equal across all boards in the province.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Capped out after being there a certain time is much different than capped out on what you can earn to start with.

Teachers will never make more than $100,000 many other jobs start above that even if they get capped after 10 years.

Lots of jobs you need a university degree for get capped at lower than 100k. Some professions start above that, sure. But now we’re weighing the relative education and job market value of engineers vs lawyers vs teachers vs accountants, etc. Which I can’t imagine we’re going to agree on.

For some perspective, 28 per cent of Albertans have a bachelor’s degree or higher, while 15 per cent of Albertans earn 100k or more. And I’d guess a fair number of those who earn 100k or more do not have a degree.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

A teacher maxxed out on the pay scale is putting away something like $1000 dollars a month directly into the AB teachers pension plan, for the duration of their career. There is no option to alter this or adjust if you are in need of extra money, would like to invest in a different opportunity, or if something unfortunate occurs. Government matching is kind of expected when you're seeing that significant of a chunk of your salary inaccessible for a major portion of your life, specifically the most expensive years raising kids, paying off your mortgage etc.

Presently CCSD teachers are simply trying to get the board to acknowledge and act on discrepancies between their peers in other boards in Alberta and across the country, which directly effect the quality of education they can provide. I'll never understand how some people can be against improving workplace conditions and ultimately delivering better education. This system has been put through the ringer by the UCP over the last decade so every little bit helps to ensure teachers are supported and standards are equal across all boards in the province.

Probably the first step would be to recognize that, in fact, nobody is against improving workplace conditions and ultimately delivering better education.

We're how deep into this thread and - to my knowledge - nobody has posted what the specific issue is teachers have with the government's proposal. Do we even know? How far apart are the two sides? Is it publicly available? I understand teachers don't like the offer, but what is the offer and what is it they want? Maybe knowing that will help people either support the teachers or support our representatives in government.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Lots of jobs you need a university degree for get capped at lower than 100k. Some professions start above that, sure. But now we’re weighing the relative education and job market value of engineers vs lawyers vs teachers vs accountants, etc. Which I can’t imagine we’re going to agree on.

I think that if you looked around Canada that $100,000 would be on the lower end of most careers that require the level of education that a teacher does. And there would be many making more without a university education as well.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I think that if you looked around Canada that $100,000 would be on the lower end of most careers that require the level of education that a teacher does. And there would be many making more without a university education as well.

Okay, but a teacher doesn't work a full-year; they work 3/4 of a year. I know in this thread we like to pretend that isn't a perk or a component of their compensation, but I don't know how many of you guys are going to be showing up everyday for work over the next two months, but I know zero teachers will be.

I'm aware that above fact will make some people angry. I don't understand why, but I don't think that's a me problem.

Do some professions pay more? Yes.

Do some professions get equal or more time off? No.

That time off is an incentive for people to get into (and stay in) teaching. Again, I know in this thread we are pretending that isn't the case, but I've yet to hear a teacher IRL not mention summers, Christmas and spring off as a major life perk they could never do without.

We could always pro-rate that salary to just three weeks off a year instead of 12 to get a better idea of what an annual salary would look like versus working 0.75 of a year.

[iggy_oi]

Nm

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Just curious , what sort of things cause a teacher to lose their certification ? Just curious what gets a teacher fired and lose their certification

Well there was that one teacher who was accused of sexual assault and basically was shuttled around without losing his license (IIRC). Then when he was charged this year, or last year, he committed suicide. So, you do wonder...when someone accused of that is still licensed and teaching, what does it take?

[ah123]

Teachers work 10 months per year, and only get paid for the 10 months (divided into 12 payments). The other two months, they are technically unemployed (and that has impacts on things like maternity leave if a teacher has a kid born during the summer months). Source: my wife is a teacher and i had sit through the sessions on all that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I think that if you looked around Canada that $100,000 would be on the lower end of most careers that require the level of education that a teacher does. And there would be many making more without a university education as well.

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. Alberta has by a wide margin the largest proportion of workers earning 100k, and it’s only 15 per cent. In a province where 28 per cent have a university degree, and decent chunk of those earning 100k are in the oil patch and trades and don’t have post-secondary.

I’d wager most Canadians who have a university degree will never earn 100k. That only seems like a moderate income if you travel in affluent upper-middle-class circles who make up a much smaller proportion of Canadians than you seem to think.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well there was that one teacher who was accused of sexual assault and basically was shuttled around without losing his license (IIRC). Then when he was charged this year, or last year, he committed suicide. So, you do wonder...when someone accused of that is still licensed and teaching, what does it take?

My guess would be when they are found guilty in court.

Should have been placed on a leave or something rather than be shuttled around to find more victims though.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. Alberta has by a wide margin the largest proportion of workers earning 100k, and it’s only 15 per cent. In a province where 28 per cent have a university degree, and decent chunk of those earning 100k are in the oil patch and trades and don’t have post-secondary.

I’d wager most Canadians who have a university degree will never earn 100k. That only seems like a moderate income if you travel in affluent upper-middle-class circles who make up a much smaller proportion of Canadians than you seem to think.

9/10 a teaching career is built on top of an undergrad degree that has very little financial upside. People from humanities, history, sociology, arts, literature, etc. are commonly funnelled into teaching because they don't have many options.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Matata

9/10 a teaching career is built on top of an undergrad degree that has very little financial upside. People from humanities, history, sociology, arts, literature, etc. are commonly funnelled into teaching because they don't have many options.

I think that's a misconception though. I know plenty of people with degrees in the social sciences who are not teachers. It's a pretty common background for law (political science in particular) and plenty of other careers. University is about critical thinking, showing that you can finish something and learning how to learn as much as it's about the specific course work. While some people are best suited for things like a trade, where they take carpentry and become a carpenter, a BA is more of a blank slate.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. Alberta has by a wide margin the largest proportion of workers earning 100k, and it’s only 15 per cent. In a province where 28 per cent have a university degree, and decent chunk of those earning 100k are in the oil patch and trades and don’t have post-secondary.

I’d wager most Canadians who have a university degree will never earn 100k. That only seems like a moderate income if you travel in affluent upper-middle-class circles who make up a much smaller proportion of Canadians than you seem to think.

Well to be clear I am not sure any teachers in Alberta make 100k and nowhere in Canada is that the salary either so the 100k number is flawed to begin with. I used it as an easy number to go by but if it becomes a number used to we can easily go with I doubt teachers make more than most people with similar educational backgrounds.