2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Spurs

It was also shown to be false he had a .898 sv % in 14 games in March after his baby was born. Then .914 in 6 games in April.

So I guess if you want to say it took a month to recover and put a lot of weight in those 6 games at the end of the season you could say things changed after the birth of his baby.

Saying that he was stellar after becoming a father would be false but he did look better and had games where he looked like he did two seasons ago. Not perfect but it should give people reason to be optimistic he will rebound this season and that maybe "baby head" was a factor in his struggles and that he's not "washed" .

And it's been said numerous times but save percentage can be misleading and doesn't always accurately reflect how a goalie played. For example, the first game he played when Vladar got pulled. He ended up with a .867 save percentage but many people on here were giving him props for playing well and getting the game to OT.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Nope. I don’t think he’s defensively aware, can skate at the NHL level, or can handle the physicality of the NHL. It is a game for big men and Phillips would be the smallest player by a big margin. Pelletier towers over Phillips.



Phillips would be the smallest in the league. On a team that is already small and heading in the wrong direction. Adding Pelletier and Coronato next season will make them smaller. Not sure how Phillips helps them get faster seeing he isn’t a burner out there. He is a skilled player but he has not found much success against teams that play big or uptempo. Look at the AHL playoffs for example. He’s also not a young guy anymore. He’s 25 and he has 3 games under his belt. It took him a few years to find success at the AHL level, how long will it take him to find his way in the faster, bigger, tougher NHL?



What has he accomplished exactly? There are all sorts of small players from the AHL that could never make the jump to the NHL. I think Phillips is another one of those.



I think you’re being very generous with your odds of him making it to the NHL. He’s 25. Most players that age have washed out of organizations by that age if they have not found a full time gig given the number of games and seasons he’s had. Opportunity has been there and he hasn’t impressed. Phillips was a 6th rounder for good reason and he’s performed like one. I think the Flames can do better in filling out the lineup than using a contract on Phillips. Just my take considering the size of the team.

So you're saying because the Flames didn't let him play in the NHL that shows he's not capable of doing so?

The flames are notoriously bad at giving their prospects playing time. Sutter basically had to be forced to do so, and even then made a massive and humiliating sideshow about it.

The NHL has clearly changed. There are now many small players who succeed. To not even give Phillips a chance is just strange.

It's all a bit a more point anyways, as what do you do return Phillips? The team has devalued him so much by not giving him any NHL playing time, he likely has virtually no trade value. So you give him his shot, if it doesn't work out he gets released and likely ends up in Europe.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Neither does any goalie, what's your point?

The flames defence were letting McDrai and Kane have multiple even man rushes and breakaways per game. Sutter's system didn't work against modem NHL teams, which are faster and rush more often. It required complete perfection from the defence, which just had them holding their sticks too tight. The team also gave up at points.

Markstrom was far from brilliant, but it's difficult to be brilliant when you're under that kind of fire.

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by blankall

The flames defence were letting McDrai and Kane have multiple even man rushes and breakaways per game. Sutter's system didn't work against modem NHL teams, which are faster and rush more often. It required complete perfection from the defence, which just had them holding their sticks too tight. The team also gave up at points.

Markstrom was far from brilliant, but it's difficult to be brilliant when you're under that kind of fire.

The narrative could be he lost confidence in Hanifin’s ability to make the right read on 2/2’s.

It seemed we turned a lot of 2/2’s into 2/1’s with Kane feasting.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by blankall

So you're saying because the Flames didn't let him play in the NHL that shows he's not capable of doing so?

The flames are notoriously bad at giving their prospects playing time. Sutter basically had to be forced to do so, and even then made a massive and humiliating sideshow about it.

The NHL has clearly changed. There are now many small players who succeed. To not even give Phillips a chance is just strange.

It's all a bit a more point anyways, as what do you do return Phillips? The team has devalued him so much by not giving him any NHL playing time, he likely has virtually no trade value. So you give him his shot, if it doesn't work out he gets released and likely ends up in Europe.

Notoriously bad? Compared to who?

I’ll grant you Sutter did not give young players much slack, but aside from the last two years or so I’d say the Flames gave plenty of young players opportunity. Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Tkachuck, Valamaki, Dube, Mangiapanne, Anderson all given opportunities. And I’ll bet there will be more this year and moving forward.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Spurs

It was also shown to be false he had a .898 sv % in 14 games in March after his baby was born. Then .914 in 6 games in April.

So I guess if you want to say it took a month to recover and put a lot of weight in those 6 games at the end of the season you could say things changed after the birth of his baby.

I take it you haven’t had a new born in your house before. I think that he will be more settled at home by October.


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[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Neither does any goalie, what's your point?

That’s not true

Markstrom is at another level of bad against the Oilers. His teams usually had no chance.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by blankall

So you're saying because the Flames didn't let him play in the NHL that shows he's not capable of doing so?

No, I'm saying that because he's been in the Flames system for seven years and attended six training camps he's shown he's not capable of playing in the NHL. He's had a number of opportunities to impress and has not done so. That's on the player.

The flames are notoriously bad at giving their prospects playing time. Sutter basically had to be forced to do so, and even then made a massive and humiliating sideshow about it.

What about the other coaches he didn't impress?

The NHL has clearly changed. There are now many small players who succeed. To not even give Phillips a chance is just strange.

There is no player as small as Phillips. Small players may be finding their way onto more teams according to you, but not as many as you seem to think. League average for a forward has INCREASED to 72.91" and 197.67 pounds. There are only six players on rosters listed at 5'8" or shorter, the smallest being Cole Caufield at 5'7". Lightest players in the league are Jacob Pelletier (160 pounds) and Kailer Yamamoto (153 pounds). Save the AHL roster weight games being played. Phillips is demonstrably smaller than Pelletier and Pelletier is one of the smallest players in the league. Phillips would be the smallest by both measures.

What is most important is where would Phillips fit in the roster? The Flames are already small and will be getting smaller this year. They'll be adding Pelletier and Coronato to the roster to play along side small players in Mangiapane and Dube. They'll also be losing size with the departures of Lucic, Ritchie, and Lewis. While the loss of these guys is a great thing from a skill perspective the loss of their size is going to hurt the team. You can only have so many small players and the Flames are exceeding their limit up front.

It's all a bit a more point anyways, as what do you do return Phillips? The team has devalued him so much by not giving him any NHL playing time, he likely has virtually no trade value. So you give him his shot, if it doesn't work out he gets released and likely ends up in Europe.

Phillips is a Group VI free agent at the end of the month. He's had more than enough opportunities to catch on and has failed. Let him go and focus on making the team better with guys that look like they can play in the NHL. I don't see any upside bringing him back. If Conroy is entertaining this it is more of a statement how thin our system really is.

[Flames_Gimp]

excellent post!

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I subscribe to the notion of 'second guessing' and/or 'over-compensating'. I think Markstrom always put in a big effort. I don't think for a second that he 'sulked' at all. I think it was 100% confidence + bad tendencies building up. I think some goalies don't have the ability to become #1 goalies - whether that's a mental issue, or an athletic issue (or both). I think some goalies were, but injuries (or age) make them less athletic. I think there is only so much one can do to adjust for past injuries and age, but there can be a lot done to just get you back into a nice stable mental space, especially if you have shown yourself capable of being there before.



I always remember Dubynk. When he was on the Oilers, I always thought he had it 'all', but wasn't putting it together. He got traded, and there were things leaked out from the acquiring teams how he had 'bad habits' and things to iron-out of his game. It wasn't until he suddenly became a Vezina goalie that the truth came out (as far as I remember anyway - think it came out afterwards). While playing behind Edmonton's defence, he learned not to trust them to do their jobs, and he ended up over-reacting and cheating. He simply got burned too many times, and without consciously thinking about it, he was overreacting and overplaying the position.


I forgot what goalie coach calmed him down, but in a better environment, Dubnyk 'settled' down, and trusted the defence in front of him again. His numbers dramatically improved to the point he won the Vezina.


Say what you will about the goalie coaches, etc... You may or may not be right about that. I think that the Flames were giving up way too many 'heart attack' chances, and these would be quick turnovers, and they would come after a long period of no shots against. Huska has stated that he wants to tweak the defensive system to decrease these chances against, and that a tweak that a lot of other teams incorporate already. I have no clue what that is, but IF it is effective, then I don't see why Markstrom can't get back to being such a tidy goalie. We forget that the year before we acquired him, that he was the ONLY goalie in the NHL that season to not give up a bad goal (clear line of sight, from distance, without having to move). You don't go from that to what we saw last season 'just because', especially when he wasn't injured.


I also don't think Sutter helped things, and maybe the pressure when things weren't going well just became unbearable. Let's see what Huska's changes brings, along with some roster movement, and some work that I am sure he will be putting in, ends up does for Markstrom's game. I would be more surprised if we don't see Markstrom bounce back noticeably than if he simply stays how he was last year. Maybe not 'Vezina finalist Markstrom', but he doesn't have to be. Just steady, #1 starter quality Markstrom. That's enough.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I’ve said it many times in here, but I think the problem is that Markstrom has always been a mediocre goalie, save for a couple of years in his prime when he managed to put it all together. I wasn’t excited when we aquired him, but I became a bit of a fan for about 1.5 seasons. I really believe you can’t win it all with him in net. Just my opinion of course.

look at his career stats, they show clearly why the Flames wanted him, i don't think he was mediocre from what I remember from looking at his career stats

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

That’s not true

Markstrom is at another level of bad against the Oilers. His teams usually had no chance.

15-15-2 in the regular season, 1-4 in the playoffs. It's the Jets who he's had the most trouble with.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by lanny_mcdonald

no, i'm saying that because he's been in the flames system for seven years and attended six training camps he's shown he's not capable of playing in the nhl. He's had a number of opportunities to impress and has not done so. That's on the player.



What about the other coaches he didn't impress?



There is no player as small as phillips. Small players may be finding their way onto more teams according to you, but not as many as you seem to think. League average for a forward has increased to 72.91" and 197.67 pounds. There are only six players on rosters listed at 5'8" or shorter, the smallest being cole caufield at 5'7". Lightest players in the league are jacob pelletier (160 pounds) and kailer yamamoto (153 pounds). Save the ahl roster weight games being played. Phillips is demonstrably smaller than pelletier and pelletier is one of the smallest players in the league. Phillips would be the smallest by both measures.

What is most important is where would phillips fit in the roster? The flames are already small and will be getting smaller this year. They'll be adding pelletier and coronato to the roster to play along side small players in mangiapane and dube. They'll also be losing size with the departures of lucic, ritchie, and lewis. While the loss of these guys is a great thing from a skill perspective the loss of their size is going to hurt the team. You can only have so many small players and the flames are exceeding their limit up front.



Phillips is a group vi free agent at the end of the month. He's had more than enough opportunities to catch on and has failed. Let him go and focus on making the team better with guys that look like they can play in the nhl. I don't see any upside bringing him back. If conroy is entertaining this it is more of a statement how thin our system really is.

100% this.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

look at his career stats, they show clearly why the Flames wanted him, i don't think he was mediocre from what I remember from looking at his career stats

I’m sure if you remove his numbers in the three years from his last season as a Canuck, to his second year as as a Flame, his career stats would look very mediocre to bad.

[RedHawk12]

So...any trade rumours?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I’m sure if you remove his numbers in the three years from his last season as a Canuck, to his second year as as a Flame, his career stats would look very mediocre to bad.

remove a players best years and he is bad...well okay

most players are like that

He has been top 4 in Vezina voting twice in the last 5 seasons

[1qqaaz]

He's a career 90.9% at 33 years old. That's mediocre to bad as far as starters go.

[Heavy Jack]

I’m still a firm believer that if you give Phillips a real opportunity in the top 6 he’ll surprise. Rather than giving assets up to Florida for a Duclair try a guy like Phillips in that spot and role with Huberdeau if we are going to retool anyways this upcoming year can be a trial period for players like Ruzicka, Phillips and Zary.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

He's a career 90.9% at 33 years old. That's mediocre to bad as far as starters go.

been on a lot of bad teams

I'm not saying he will bounce back for sure but to say he has never been a good/great goalie is false

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I’m still a firm believer that if you give Phillips a real opportunity in the top 6 he’ll surprise. Rather than giving assets up to Florida for a Duclair try a guy like Phillips in that spot and role with Huberdeau if we are going to retool anyways this upcoming year can be a trial period for players like Ruzicka, Phillips and Zary.

That could possibly be the softest line in Hockey depending on who Centers them.

[Beninho]

They gave Kevin Rooney more of a chance than Phillips, which is classic Flames I might add