[Rumour] The Athletic: Flames firesale

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

I really don't know what to expect.

It all depends on the direction Conroy chooses to take.

If the Flames really do rebuild it should be pretty exciting whereas if they try and continue to re-sign the players they already have it may be extremely boring/disappointing.

There is a ton of available young talent to be had if ever we trade Lindholm, Toffoli, Hanifin, etc. But at the same time is the casual Flames fan ready for a rough 3-5 years.

Some fans act like this decision is between the Flames being top 5 in the league or bottom 5. Realistically it's probably between being in the 15 to 20 range and the 20 to 25 range. The Flames with all these guys didn't make the playoffs and they probably won't even if they keep the entire team together. We're not missing anything trying to "win." And if the team ends up really bad I'm pretty sure a top 5 pick will be more exciting than whatever we watched all last year.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I think the prizes everyone wants from the Flames are Lindy, Toffoli and Hanifin. With their contracts any team can add them if Flames retain salary. Backs and Vladar are less likely to draw the same interest as they are high paid for what they bring. It’s going to be a big week and I hope the Flames do this right and get younger and cheaper.

Also, there are few things as useless as an Athletic subscription. All the same news and speculation as everywhere else but behind a firewall. I only paid $20 for it but I won’t be renewing.

How are Backlund and Vladar highly paid for what they bring? I’d argue Backlund has been a bargain.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Just because it's a mess (my point) doesn't mean it can't be cleaned up (By Conroy fingers crossed), I understand some want to dismiss any and all criticism but this amount of players all being UFA and all wanting out around the same time is unprecedented and I won't pretend it's not.

pretend? dismiss?

What if some just disagree with you? Not sure you need to back up the label truck.

They're all assets, 6 of 7 acquired by Treliving, with value and a chance to recoup assets for them.

That's not setting a team up for a disaster or a mess, it's an opportunity.

[taxbuster]

Waiting for the inevitable meltdown on CP when the Flames make ANY choice, whether it be scorched earth rebuild, retool, retrench-on-the-fly, stay the course or surprise move.

There are more factions that think their way is the ONLY way...possibly as many factions as rumoured in the Flames dressing room last year.

The scorched earth crowd will melt down if any of the pending UFAs are retained, the others if they're traded for roster players, discounted or not, and the retools will hate only getting picks who won't mature for years yet.

I'll just munch my popcorn for now and wait to see how they go, then evaluate, then comment, personally. Not expecting miracles.

[D as in David]

My prediction is that after the next week is done we'll be having a debate about whether the Flames are actually retooling or rebuilding.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by D as in David

My prediction is that after the next week is done we'll be having a debate about whether the Flames are actually retooling or rebuilding.

It will be known as "The Great Recombobulating"

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by D as in David

My prediction is that after the next week is done we'll be having a debate about whether the Flames are actually retooling or rebuilding.

I think retooling is possible but it would mean getting three picks before 25. This draft is that good. You could walk out of the draft with danielson honzek and heidt. Would completely change our team dynamics having three young top tier centres. Add that to the second rounders and what we have coming up it looks entirely different even with kahdri and huby in it

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I dunno why guys, but I feel like this upcoming week will be one big disappointment after another….

I just think people should temper their expectations. I’d rather Conroe wait for the right deal than take something that undervalues good players. If all he’s being offered is a second and b-prospect for Hanafin then sit on them and wait for better deals.

[metroneck]

Originally Posted by Fan69

I think retooling is possible but it would mean getting three picks before 25. This draft is that good. You could walk out of the draft with danielson honzek and heidt. Would completely change our team dynamics having three young top tier centres. Add that to the second rounders and what we have coming up it looks entirely different even with kahdri and huby in it

From afar, it seemed Huberdeau really took Pelletier under his wing. In your scenario, he could really be a difference maker in their development.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I dunno why guys, but I feel like this upcoming week will be one big disappointment after another….

I have to agree with you. I think the fact that Conroy is green and has a lot of pressure on him to make a great move out of the gate may just cause him to overthink things and leave good deals on the table. I also think the draft may be a little anticlimactic for the Flames as they try to make up for the last couple drafts and go after players they think are safe. We have really high hopes going into the draft, but I feel we may be let down when the dust settles.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Bingo

pretend? dismiss?

What if some just disagree with you? Not sure you need to back up the label truck.

They're all assets, 6 of 7 acquired by Treliving, with value and a chance to recoup assets for them.

That's not setting a team up for a disaster or a mess, it's an opportunity.

The expiring contracts alone aren't a mess, but with the commitments to Huberdeau & Kadri the overall plan was (or lack of plan).

We are now in a situation that re signing Lindholm and Backlund makes little to no sense, not because of their play, wages or what they bring to the team.
But because, he already bet on the other guys and it would be foolish to pay all of these guys long term, aging contracts.
Maybe also among the reasons everyone wants out, BT picked their leaders already.

I agree Conroy can actually make good moves with the current situation, but pretending it was a calculation by Treliving is quite the stretch.
He bet the Flames all in on Huberdeau and Kadri, all we can do is hope he was right.
He didn't "create an opportunity to pivot".

[Mr.Coffee]

Who cares what they brand it, rebuild retool whatever. None of that matters.

Just get futures picks prospects etc. for the love of God. If not whispering the word “rebuild” makes King Murray go along with it then fine, whatever.

[metroneck]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I have to agree with you. I think the fact that Conroy is green and has a lot of pressure on him to make a great move out of the gate may just cause him to overthink things and leave good deals on the table. I also think the draft may be a little anticlimactic for the Flames as they try to make up for the last couple drafts and go after players they think are safe. We have really high hopes going into the draft, but I feel we may be let down when the dust settles.

While he may make a bad move, I doubt it’s because he’s green or overthinking.

Based on his interviews, he’s been making these decisions, and evaluating them for years. He just hasn’t had the weight of accountability for his choices yet.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

The expiring contracts alone aren't a mess, but with the commitments to Huberdeau & Kadri the overall plan was (or lack of plan).

We are now in a situation that re signing Lindholm and Backlund makes little to no sense, not because of their play, wages or what they bring to the team.
But because, he already bet on the other guys and it would be foolish to pay all of these guys long term, aging contracts.
Maybe also among the reasons everyone wants out, BT picked their leaders already.

I agree Conroy can actually make good moves with the current situation, but pretending it was a calculation by Treliving is quite the stretch.
He bet the Flames all in on Huberdeau and Kadri, all we can do is hope he was right.
He didn't "create an opportunity to pivot".

Not to mention he traded away so many picks including a 1st to sign Kadri. That entire decision just looks horrendous. All these current UFAs provide an opportunity to bring in futures to start a rebuild but imagine we used Tkachuk to land a young high end player or pick, had an extra 1st, and didn't have term and money locked into Huberdeau, Kadri, and Weegar. The Flames would be in a great position to rebuild in that scenario combined with what we can get for the UFAs. It was such an obvious decision last year. And the only reason we might even semi get something similar going forward is because these players are forcing their hand. The fact they couldn't come to these conclusions on their own is why I'm skeptical they will execute any true plan that leads towards being a real contender.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by D as in David

My prediction is that after the next week is done we'll be having a debate about whether the Flames are actually retooling or rebuilding.

Refueling the re-ignition.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Not to mention he traded away so many picks including a 1st to sign Kadri. That entire decision just looks horrendous. All these current UFAs provide an opportunity to bring in futures to start a rebuild but imagine we used Tkachuk to land a young high end player or pick, had an extra 1st, and didn't have term and money locked into Huberdeau, Kadri, and Weegar. The Flames would be in a great position to rebuild in that scenario combined with what we can get for the UFAs. It was such an obvious decision last year. And the only reason we might even semi get something similar going forward is because these players are forcing their hand. The fact they couldn't come to these conclusions on their own is why I'm skeptical they will execute any true plan that leads towards being a real contender.

Yeah. I get that too. But it’s classic business speak to force results. It’s amazing in the corporate world to see yes men accept challenges and force results down when those on the lower levels have a more objective view that it won’t work or isn’t working. Until organizations have proper checks and balances and flow of information honestly throughout this type of thing will continue to happen. One aspect with what sec said about Edwards was good in that they were open to what most would call a rebuild, but to promise that it would get done within 3 years and ensure it happens within that timeframe is where things go wrong. There are unknowns like how the prospects are developing, or guys getting injured out of nowhere really requires communication to say they’ll need a year or two extra. Especially if those prospects didn’t pan out. What I will also say is they better invest in all things development to ensure they develop these new guys well. Can’t afford to be mediocre in their approach.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by metroneck

While he may make a bad move, I doubt it’s because he’s green or overthinking.

Based on his interviews, he’s been making these decisions, and evaluating them for years. He just hasn’t had the weight of accountability for his choices yet.

It's that weight of accountability that makes all the difference and makes people slow their approach. I'm sure Conroy is well aware his first deal is going to judged as a "defining" moment for his term as GM. He'll want it to be positive. Most new managers make small moves first to test the waters. Conroy has been pushed into the deep end of the pool but it has no water in it and he's expected to make a splash. Tough position to be in.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Yeah. I get that too. But it’s classic business speak to force results. It’s amazing in the corporate world to see yes men accept challenges and force results down when those on the lower levels have a more objective view that it won’t work or isn’t working. Until organizations have proper checks and balances and flow of information honestly throughout this type of thing will continue to happen. One aspect with what sec said about Edwards was good in that they were open to what most would call a rebuild, but to promise that it would get done within 3 years and ensure it happens within that timeframe is where things go wrong. There are unknowns like how the prospects are developing, or guys getting injured out of nowhere really requires communication to say they’ll need a year or two extra. Especially if those prospects didn’t pan out. What I will also say is they better invest in all things development to ensure they develop these new guys well. Can’t afford to be mediocre in their approach.

If you were Edwards and knew some teams were bad for a decade, would you want a commitment to how long a rebuild would take? Seems like a reasonable question to ask your executives.


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[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Not sure I would have an appetite to help Florida any more than we already have unless it costs them an arm and leg of futures or young players.

Lundell for sure.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Not sure I would have an appetite to help Florida any more than we already have unless it costs them an arm and leg of futures or young players.

Lundell for sure.

Lundell has to be in any Florida deal for hanifin, lindy or even toffoli.