Teachers are at the end of their rope.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Weitz

People think kids in the catholic system are indoctrinated? It’s literally public school plus 1 class and some dumb assembly’s for 99% of the kids.

Or as my child says - you believe in that crap.

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

I guess the other bonus of teaching is that once you’re hired, you basically have a job for life, if you want it. Do teachers ever get their lesson plans checked, or have an assessment from their boss to ensure they’re doing a good job? It seems like they assume you’re doing what you’re supposed to do forever. If all your kids get bad grades, do they ever check to see if the teacher is maybe not a good fit? Do principals audit classes for performance reviews? It seems not.

There’s lots of union jobs where you only get negotiated raises, so I’m not sure that’s an indicator of anything.

This is nonsense. It is very difficult to fire a teacher but they don’t get gifted a set of keys and a pension. Lol

There is a teacher quality standard and a leadership quality standard which lay out teacher and principal expectations. Each year, professionals write a professional growth plan which ties into areas of the standards in which they want to improve. Teachers submit the plans to the principals and it is reviewed over the course of the school year. Principals submit their growth plan to their superintendents and have reviews with the boss. On top of these expectations, there is the code of conduct.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

I guess the other bonus of teaching is that once you’re hired, you basically have a job for life, if you want it. Do teachers ever get their lesson plans checked, or have an assessment from their boss to ensure they’re doing a good job? It seems like they assume you’re doing what you’re supposed to do forever. If all your kids get bad grades, do they ever check to see if the teacher is maybe not a good fit? Do principals audit classes for performance reviews? It seems not.

There’s lots of union jobs where you only get negotiated raises, so I’m not sure that’s an indicator of anything.

Oh, you have no idea how the education system works.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

It's either get rid of the Catholic school board, or start publicly funded Muslim, Hindu, Protestant and Mormon school boards and continue to raise our children in segregated environments where they are indoctrinated into a religion by their educators, and grow up with limited empathy toward others as they grow up without encountering people outside of their religious group.

Best post in this thread.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

It's either get rid of the Catholic school board, or start publicly funded Muslim, Hindu, Protestant and Mormon school boards and continue to raise our children in segregated environments where they are indoctrinated into a religion by their educators, and grow up with limited empathy toward others as they grow up without encountering people outside of their religious group.

A guaranteed Catholic school board was a condition of Alberta joining Confederation. Those other Religions didnt have enough clout at the time to demand the same.

But it ain't going anywhere.

[sleepingmoose]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Oh, you have no idea how the education system works.

Clearly not - I’m genuinely curious, how is a teacher’s actual teaching performance assessed regularly to ensure they achieve an acceptable standard?

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by GGG

For sure that out of class time is significant time commitment. It’s also why the collective bargaining agreement limits instructional time to 907 hours total and a maximum of 30 hrs per week of assigned time (assigned time includes prep, supervision and instruction).

https://legacy.teachers.ab.ca/Public...018-2020).aspx

It’s garbage the government appears to be not just offering what the other major boards already got.

Assigned time does not include prep and instructional time has been increased to 916 hours.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Weitz

People think kids in the catholic system are indoctrinated? It’s literally public school plus 1 class and some dumb assembly’s for 99% of the kids.

And no talk of condoms let alone abortion.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Assigned time does not include prep.

Sorry I didn’t read that correctly. I was confusing what teachers I know call prep periods where they don’t have a class to teach with time dedicated for preparation by contract.

I think the general point still stands though that teachers work around full time hours similar to other professions.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

"You can always tell when someone went to Catholic school, because now, they're atheists." - Mike Birbiglia

[Two Fivenagame]

Religious institutions are out of control. There are 4 large scale churches within walking distance from my house, each of them built on sizable chunks of land that the city doesn't connect property taxes on. These facilities remain empty 6 days a week. And then there are also 2 Catholic schools nearby.

[Slava]

The thing with class sizes though, is it seems like they've been too high for decades at this point. I remember large classes when I was in school and my kids today seem to have classes that are around that same size. Is it just the new normal at that point?

It also seems like the overall time in class for students today compared to years ago has dropped significantly. When I was in school, PD days felt like they were a rarity, but they're seemingly constant now. My kids seem to have more weeks that are not full weeks of school than they have that are actually 5 days.

And yeah, there are some teachers who go above and beyond to do extra curricular things. Some of them are amazing in the time and energy they give! But I feel like that also inflates the average hours worked. There are also a whack of teachers who aren't involved in those things. And like someone noted earlier, this is what they signed up for. It's not exactly a secret that these challenges exist for teachers.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by GGG

Sorry I didn’t read that correctly. I was confusing what teachers I know call prep periods where they don’t have a class to teach with time dedicated for preparation by contract.

I think the general point still stands though that teachers work around full time hours similar to other professions.

I've been a teacher for a decade and I don't think I've ever seen or been in a situation where a teacher has had time dedicated for preparation by contract lol.

[Bleeding Red]

I am not a teacher, but there are things that I find odd that teachers, the Teacher's Union, Principals, School Boards, & the ministry have no answers for include:
- Why do retired teachers on a full pension get to "double dip" by being at the top of substitute lists or working at private schools? (young teachers at the start of their careers complain this keeps them out of work)
- How much are the union dues? These unions have boatloads of cash for strikes and pensions. Seems to me, lowering the dues would equal real wage increases.
- Is vacation time really vacation time? Do teachers spend spring break grading papers or on a beach? I think they are required to be in school the week after last day and the week before first day.
- How is prep time calculated and monitored?
- Is kindergarten teacher a $100k job?
- Why not disband school boards and separate boards and wrap it all into the ministry?

- These agreements from late 1800's & early 1900's are not set in stone. Other provinces have worked around them (or in QC, ignored them). I don't think AB will quit confederation or be kicked out over dissolving the Catholic school board. I don't think there is anything in the agreement that says it has to be equally funded.

-What is the monetary value of having so much time off?

-What is the monetary value of having gold plated benefits?

At the end of the day I am sure teaching is a good and fulfilling career.

I just wish the economics were a bit clearer considering education spending is just below health care spending in most provincial budgets.

(In ON, one thing that always bothered me is that the provincial tv channel is funded through the education budget. The highest paid employee in the Education budget is the lead anchor on the TV channel @ $350k.)

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I am not a teacher, but there are things that I find odd that teachers, the Teacher's Union, Principals, School Boards, & the ministry have no answers for include:
- Why do retired teachers on a full pension get to "double dip" by being at the top of substitute lists or working at private schools? (young teachers at the start of their careers complain this keeps them out of work)
- How much are the union dues? These unions have boatloads of cash for strikes and pensions. Seems to me, lowering the dues would equal real wage increases.
- Is vacation time really vacation time? Do teachers spend spring break grading papers or on a beach? I think they are required to be in school the week after last day and the week before first day.
- How is prep time calculated and monitored?
- Is kindergarten teacher a $100k job?
- Why not disband school boards and separate boards and wrap it all into the ministry?

- These agreements from late 1800's & early 1900's are not set in stone. Other provinces have worked around them (or in QC, ignored them). I don't think AB will quit confederation or be kicked out over dissolving the Catholic school board. I don't think there is anything in the agreement that says it has to be equally funded.

-What is the monetary value of having so much time off?

-What is the monetary value of having gold plated benefits?

At the end of the day I am sure teaching is a good and fulfilling career.

I just wish the economics were a bit clearer considering education spending is just below health care spending in most provincial budgets.

(In ON, one thing that always bothered me is that the provincial tv channel is funded through the education budget. The highest paid employee in the Education budget is the lead anchor on the TV channel @ $350k.)

Have you met this current government? If it came form Ottawa it'd be war. And they would never even consider doing it themselves. Probably the opposite.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

I've been a teacher for a decade and I don't think I've ever seen or been in a situation where a teacher has had time dedicated for preparation by contract lol.

Yeah I was incorrectly conflating assigned time that wasn’t instructional time with prep time.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

- Is kindergarten teacher a $100k job?

Why would Kindergarten teacher not be a 100k job? This is another example of parents/public thinking they know what teachers do but clearly do not. Kindergarten teacher is as hard if not harder than any other teaching job. It is a job that takes incredible amounts of time to prepare for and if you think that all they do is let kids play without a spending time thinking about the activities they put out and how they promote development then again you are clueless.

As for some of the other questions I would say they are good teachers and bad teachers, just like there are good police men, good accountants, good lawyers and bad versions of all those.

In my time working in schools and outside of schools I would say the ratio of good teachers/bad teachers is much higher in the good category compared to other places I have worked. It seems many want to paint the picture is way more to the side of bad teachers. It always makes me laugh that the people who are constantly railing against teachers have all these anecdotal from their "friends" who are teachers about how they do no work. It is possible I guess but having worked in schools for 5+ years and been married to a teacher for 20 years with other teachers in the family, I have never seen the level of laziness these stories portray as being normal.

The vacation timing and child care is also a double edged sword often overrated as well. I have been much more involved in child care for our kids because I can be flexible in when I start/finish my job, much easier to take time off as well if needed. My wife has to be in her class the same time everyday, she has no flexibility. When we want to go to Disneyland the times we get to go are the busiest dates in the year.

This doesn't mean that there aren't perks, this isn't meant to be complaining that teachers have it so much harder. But it is frustrating (and silly) when so many myths and flat out lies are spread about teachers, that anytime these are corrected it is portrayed as whining and that people seem to always make the vast minority of bad teachers out to be the norm.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I am not a teacher, but there are things that I find odd that teachers, the Teacher's Union, Principals, School Boards, & the ministry have no answers for include:
- Why do retired teachers on a full pension get to "double dip" by being at the top of substitute lists or working at private schools? (young teachers at the start of their careers complain this keeps them out of work)
- How much are the union dues? These unions have boatloads of cash for strikes and pensions. Seems to me, lowering the dues would equal real wage increases.
- Is vacation time really vacation time? Do teachers spend spring break grading papers or on a beach? I think they are required to be in school the week after last day and the week before first day.
- How is prep time calculated and monitored?
- Is kindergarten teacher a $100k job?
- Why not disband school boards and separate boards and wrap it all into the ministry?

- Retired teachers on a full pension who still work more than a day or two a week are incredibly rare. There is no "top" of the substitute list. There is just the substitute list. I've met maybe 2 or 3 teachers in ten years who are retired with full pensions and still choose to sub. Most subs have left the profession early and given up their contracts, are middle-aged with young families and sub for casual work, or young teachers who have not secured contracts yet.

- Association dues are about $1,500 a year for a full-time working teacher.

- Vacation time is vacation time. I'm not required to be at the school during vacation time. Teachers arrive August 28th (3 days before the kids) and leave June 30th (2 days after the kids) and anything else is voluntary.

- There is no such thing as prep time. There is instructional time, which is capped at 916 hours per school year, and assigned time, which is capped at 1,200 hours per school year. "Prep" time as you know it is unassigned time, where the teacher is free to do anything. That's just personal time where teachers choose to prepare for classes so that they have something to teach.

- Yes, absolutely. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.

- I wonder how other provinces do it. I don't think Alberta is unique. I imagine while this might save a meagre amount of administrative costs it would add a lot of other problems.

[Fuzz]

It's like some people have never seen Kindergarten Cop.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

- Retired teachers on a full pension who still work more than a day or two a week are incredibly rare. There is no "top" of the substitute list. There is just the substitute list. I've met maybe 2 or 3 teachers in ten years who are retired with full pensions and still choose to sub. Most subs have left the profession early and given up their contracts, are middle-aged with young families and sub for casual work, or young teachers who have not secured contracts yet.

- Association dues are about $1,500 a year for a full-time working teacher.

- Vacation time is vacation time. I'm not required to be at the school during vacation time. Teachers arrive August 28th (3 days before the kids) and leave June 30th (2 days after the kids) and anything else is voluntary.

- There is no such thing as prep time. There is instructional time, which is capped at 916 hours per school year, and assigned time, which is capped at 1,200 hours per school year. "Prep" time as you know it is unassigned time, where the teacher is free to do anything. That's just personal time where teachers choose to prepare for classes so that they have something to teach.

- Yes, absolutely. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.

- I wonder how other provinces do it. I don't think Alberta is unique. I imagine while this might save a meagre amount of administrative costs it would add a lot of other problems.

Does the 1200 hrs assigned time include the pd days? I should know this as my spouse is a teacher, but that number seems to imply a fair bit of time to prepare during the school day, and that is simply not the case for her. It may differ a bit for elementary vs high school, as to how the assigned time is actually spent.