Teachers are at the end of their rope.

[GGG]

As for strike strategy the teachers should just refuse to do any volunteer work.

You cancel football and volleyball and parents will demand the government cave and the teachers still are educating kids so the public doesn’t hate the teachers. I think when then did it in Saskatchewan in lasted the first 2 weeks of school.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

https://local38.teachers.ab.ca/SiteC...ALLOWANCES.pdf

Honestly 95$k for 10 months of work for 10 years experience isn’t properly?

Not trying to start a pay debate , but pay doesn’t seem out of whack

Now other factors - having to buy materials , class size , etc but seriously the job pays $10k a month (when they are working)

If you add up all the time teachers spend working outside the classroom, I'm quite positive they work more than the 2000 hours or so per year that a standard 40hr/week job does

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

If you add up all the time teachers spend working outside the classroom, I'm quite positive they work more than the 2000 hours or so per year that a standard 40hr/week job does

Most people making $100k work hours outside their 40 Hr week as well

I don’t think teachers are overpaid , but it seems $100k is pretty good (if you removed the BS like paying for own materials and class size) especially with 2 months completely off

In fact , it sounds pretty fantastic !

[Flabbibulin]

Just to clarify, its more like 11 weeks off. 2 weeks at Christmas, 1 week spring break, 8 weeks for summer.

Even so, sure they should be paid well, and I think the pay structure that CBE currently has is pretty fair.

[sleepingmoose]

I usually get shouted down when I argue that teachers have a sweet deal - 12 weeks off a year including the whole summer - and they get $100k a year plus benefits and a pension. The teachers always say “but I work outside of school hours to coach basketball and do marking” - as mentioned above, there’s a lot of jobs (including mine) where I work lots outside of regular hours, answer phone calls and emails all the time, and I don’t get nearly as much time off.

I get that dealing with a classroom full of kids (including mine) would suck - but this is the career they chose, so if they didn’t want to do that, they should’ve chosen something else. I’m not saying they’re overpaid, but to suggest they’re underpaid is ridiculous.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Most people making $100k work hours outside their 40 Hr week as well

I don’t think teachers are overpaid , but it seems $100k is pretty good (if you removed the BS like paying for own materials and class size) especially with 2 months completely off

In fact , it sounds pretty fantastic !

Well not to get too deep into it, there could certainly be improvements to their working conditions, I wont deny that.

But I can sort of see where they're coming from.

Teachers are paid well, they hit the top of their pay-scale after about 10 years, so for the next 15 years of their careers they're getting Max Pay.

However, that also means that they rarely see any raises, even for COLA. And I think that, among other factors, is demoralizing. But it needs to be understood that this career is a Marathon, not a Sprint.

Furthermore, they have lots that comes out of that $10k/mo. Union Dues, standard CPP/EI, and a hefty chunk goes to their pensions. So realistically they'd typically be clearing about half of that for take-home.

And it doesnt go up by much.

Further to that thogh, we do also have to acknowledge that teachers live in the same world as the rest of us. While their pay scale is locked-in, they still have to deal with the real-world issues of increased cost of housing, utilities, food, fuel...the same things as the rest of us.

So they see their costs going up and up but their wages stay the same.

So for instance, in a household where one spouse is a Teacher, thats great! That person is rock-solid unless they commit a mid-tier felony. Even then...while the other spouse's income could be more in tune with a changing economic climate, for good or ill.

To maintain their standard of living there are only so many costs you can cut, so they want more money.

Hey CRA did it and if there is a group of people on the face of this Earth less deserving of a raise than CRA I'd love to hear it.

[CliffFletcher]

Being a teacher is a great job for a parent, as having the same time off calendar as your kids saves thousands a year in child care (not to mention the time you get to spend with them). Then there’s being virtually immune to layoffs. And retiring 5+ years earlier than average with a guaranteed pension for life is a massive benefit.

It’s not an easy job, but it’s a very good job. Especially for people who value security. Which is why there’s no shortage of teacher program graduates.

[Jason14h]

Teachers pay isn’t locked in though , they negotiate new deals all the time

There is just an upper boundary .

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Teachers pay isn’t locked in though , they negotiate new deals all the time

There is just an upper boundary .

It absolutely is.

Once you're in, based on your qualifications you're on your designated scale and that is what you make until your Union re-negotiates a contract with the Government.

[The Big Chill]

I haven’t come across many teachers who say they are underpaid. The complaints are usually working conditions. Growing class sizes take away from their ability to do their job to the best of their ability, and lack of supports for kids that need extra/special attention, like kids with mental health issues or learning disabilities etc..

It’s dealing with those things that are often outside the scope of their expertise and training that make the job difficult at times.

I also agree with those saying it’s a great job if that’s your sort of thing, but adding those extra supports in schools is beneficial for our society as a whole.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

If you add up all the time teachers spend working outside the classroom, I'm quite positive they work more than the 2000 hours or so per year that a standard 40hr/week job does

I don’t see this as any different than any other profession. You are also likely counting the volunteer work they do running the school leagues and activities so if you are comparing it to other people you would also need to include their volunteer work work within their communities.

In general they should pay increases in line with inflation. Then work on using funding to reduce class size.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I haven’t come across many teachers who say they are underpaid. The complaints are usually working conditions. Growing class sizes take away from their ability to do their job to the best of their ability, and lack of supports for kids that need extra/special attention, like kids with mental health issues or learning disabilities etc..

It’s dealing with those things that are often outside the scope of their expertise and training that make the job difficult at times.

I also agree with those saying it’s a great job if that’s your sort of thing, but adding those extra supports in schools is beneficial for our society as a whole.

The #1 issue during negotiation that teachers want addressed is always class size, and it is never addressed. This is why I think, although it has enough members to be a real power, the Teacher's Union is actually populated by some pretty out of touch people at their offices. They also seem to have a very vague presence in the actual schools, and many issues go without support. I'm pretty comfortable calling out the leadership of the Teacher's Union as incompetent.

The evolution of an increasing percentage of parents and their offspring having little or no respect for teachers is also becoming a pretty huge concern. Not only is Billy a special flower, but Billy's parents are REALLY IMPORTANT, and need to force upon teacher's Billy's innate importantness.

Teaching 10 years ago was a completely different animal.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don’t see this as any different than any other profession. You are also likely counting the volunteer work they do running the school leagues and activities so if you are comparing it to other people you would also need to include their volunteer work work within their communities.

In general they should pay increases in line with inflation. Then work on using funding to reduce class size.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. You want a set wage? You get a set wage. Until its renegotiated.

I dont know about lots of the rest of the Province, but building schools to reduce class sizes has to encompass a whole crapload of moving factors.

For example, High Schools are overcrowded, there was a news story a few years ago about kids sitting in the halls.

And yet they spent a crapload of money renovating Beaverbrook but...its in an old community and despite renovations is something like 1/3 empty.

I'm not going to 'deep dive' it or anything, but you need a new school? Do you build one giant school? 3 smaller schools? Where do you put them? What are the age demographics of those communities going to be like for the next 50 years?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don’t see this as any different than any other profession. You are also likely counting the volunteer work they do running the school leagues and activities so if you are comparing it to other people you would also need to include their volunteer work work within their communities.

In general they should pay increases in line with inflation. Then work on using funding to reduce class size.

Add 50% of class time outside of work doing assessments and planning, depending on courseload and department. This is frequently more work than actually teaching, with the advent of so many avenues to cheat, and the exploding class sizes.

It's not volunteer work, or answering calls after work. So many teachers I know consider the assessment hell, and it's all after hours.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Add 50% of class time outside of work doing assessments and planning, depending on courseload and department. This is frequently more work than actually teaching, with the advent of so many avenues to cheat, and the exploding class sizes.

It's not volunteer work, or answering calls after work. So many teachers I know consider the assessment hell, and it's all after hours.

For sure that out of class time is significant time commitment. It’s also why the collective bargaining agreement limits instructional time to 907 hours total and a maximum of 30 hrs per week of assigned time (assigned time includes prep, supervision and instruction).

https://legacy.teachers.ab.ca/Public...018-2020).aspx

It’s garbage the government appears to be not just offering what the other major boards already got.

[sleepingmoose]

I guess the other bonus of teaching is that once you’re hired, you basically have a job for life, if you want it. Do teachers ever get their lesson plans checked, or have an assessment from their boss to ensure they’re doing a good job? It seems like they assume you’re doing what you’re supposed to do forever. If all your kids get bad grades, do they ever check to see if the teacher is maybe not a good fit? Do principals audit classes for performance reviews? It seems not.

There’s lots of union jobs where you only get negotiated raises, so I’m not sure that’s an indicator of anything.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Dismantling the Catholic school board entirely and shifting everything to the CBE would be even better

So, don’t pay them equal to their peers?

Ok, whatever.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

It's either get rid of the Catholic school board, or start publicly funded Muslim, Hindu, Protestant and Mormon school boards and continue to raise our children in segregated environments where they are indoctrinated into a religion by their educators, and grow up with limited empathy toward others as they grow up without encountering people outside of their religious group.

People think kids in the catholic system are indoctrinated? It’s literally public school plus 1 class and some dumb assembly’s for 99% of the kids.

[Ashartus]

Pay isn't one of the things being negotiated, that is already set province-wide and I think teachers are fine with it. It's all about working conditions, mostly requirements to "volunteer" coach etc. where apparently CSSD has different requirements than most other boards.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

I guess the other bonus of teaching is that once you’re hired, you basically have a job for life, if you want it. Do teachers ever get their lesson plans checked, or have an assessment from their boss to ensure they’re doing a good job? It seems like they assume you’re doing what you’re supposed to do forever. If all your kids get bad grades, do they ever check to see if the teacher is maybe not a good fit? Do principals audit classes for performance reviews? It seems not.

There’s lots of union jobs where you only get negotiated raises, so I’m not sure that’s an indicator of anything.

What makes you believe that there is no performance evaluation of teachers?

You think out of all the professions out there somehow they have become completely exempt from coaching and evaluation? Where does this idea come from? What do you think principles of other school administrators do.