Pentagon releases UFO videos

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That's not two options. That's a singular conclusion.

You could say God is behind it, if that's what lets you sleep at night, but that would still be considered an intelligence beyond our own. Again, whether they be from this universe, another universe, this dimension, another dimension, or from the oceans of this planet they are controlled by an intelligence beyond our own. They perform maneuvers that defy the laws of physics as we understand them (we probably have a toddler's grasp on the rules of the physical universe) which means they are the product of an intelligence beyond our own. How is this difficult for you to understand and admit?

Because you are beginning with this unproven conclusion as fact. Proper science doesn't work like that. So why would I admit it as true?

[Lanny_McDonald]

It's a conclusion based on decades of data and study by the military, intelligence, public and private communities. Just because you don't like the conclusion doesn't mean it isn't true. Therein lies the problem. It doesn't fit with your anthropomorphizing of the universe so it must be wrong. Unless we are the top of the food chain, the supreme intelligence, it can't be true. If they are not living, are material in nature, and do not appear to be natural, then they must be manufactured. That infers an involvement of an intelligence. The fact that we have no idea what these things are, how they disobey our primitive understanding of physics, or where they are from clearly supports they were created by a superior intelligence. Or to comply with your binary understanding of things, God pulled them out of his arse.

[GGG]

Is there where we ask for peer reviewed evidence or official information to support your statements and you give us links to the alien autopsy guy and then claim we aren’t proper skeptics if we dare question any of it. Because I always enjoy that part of the thread cycle.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's a conclusion based on decades of data and study by the military, intelligence, public and private communities. Just because you don't like the conclusion doesn't mean it isn't true. Therein lies the problem. It doesn't fit with your anthropomorphizing of the universe so it must be wrong. Unless we are the top of the food chain, the supreme intelligence, it can't be true. If they are not living, are material in nature, and do not appear to be natural, then they must be manufactured. That infers an involvement of an intelligence. The fact that we have no idea what these things are, how they disobey our primitive understanding of physics, or where they are from clearly supports they were created by a superior intelligence. Or to comply with your binary understanding of things, God pulled them out of his arse.

Geez, speaking of straw men...

So you say we have a primitive understanding. To me that is you admitting that it is something we do not understand, which doesn't make it "aliens" anymore than it make it God. You understand this is just god of the gaps, right? "We don't understand it, therefore it must be aliens" is not a credible scientific statement.

And really, this is your conclusion, not the conclusion of all you mention in the first sentence. Just becuase they are investigating, doesn't mean they've concluded they are otherworldly.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is there where we ask for peer reviewed evidence or official information to support your statements and you give us links to the alien autopsy guy and then claim we aren’t proper skeptics if we dare question any of it. Because I always enjoy that part of the thread cycle.

Just a side note, there's a ton of military testimony and eye-witness accounts from Cmdr. David Fravor and others on experiencing these things while flying for the USAF - and regularly. They may not have the craft in their possession, but these are sane, intelligent, military aviators coming forward and sharing their experiences. They even have these objects sometimes captured on radar. What more are you looking for?

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Geez, speaking of straw men...

So you say we have a primitive understanding. To me that is you admitting that it is something we do not understand, which doesn't make it "aliens" anymore than it make it God. You understand this is just god of the gaps, right? "We don't understand it, therefore it must be aliens" is not a credible scientific statement.

And really, this is your conclusion, not the conclusion of all you mention in the first sentence. Just becuase they are investigating, doesn't mean they've concluded they are otherworldly.

I don't believe anyone is claiming aliens. in fact, that hypothesis is one of the lesser likely ones IMO.

I think he's just saying that most of the evidence, eyewitness accounts etc point to an intelligence that isn't human and is likely superior to ours given its apparent technical capabilities.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

I don't believe anyone is claiming aliens. in fact, that hypothesis is one of the lesser likely ones IMO.

I think he's just saying that most of the evidence, eyewitness accounts etc point to an intelligence that isn't human and is likely superior to ours given its apparent technical capabilities.

Lanny is. Either that, or just a poor communicator. He can clear it up though.

[soreshins]

I find it interesting that one of the main arguments against the government having recovered alien tech is that they are too incompetent to keep a secret like that. However, if we are to accept that UAP are previously unseen and exotic human developed technology then we need to accept that the government can, in fact, keep something like that secret. So which is it? Either they can’t or they can?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Muta

Just a side note, there's a ton of military testimony and eye-witness accounts from Cmdr. David Fravor and others on experiencing these things while flying for the USAF - and regularly. They may not have the craft in their possession, but these are sane, intelligent, military aviators coming forward and sharing their experiences. They even have these objects sometimes captured on radar. What more are you looking for?

That’s evidence of things we don’t yet understand existing.

That isn’t evidence of “they are controlled by an intelligence beyond our own”

But what I would want before accepting the existence of non-human intelligent life is multiple independent reviews coming to that conclusion. Say the same standard for the research going on to find evidence of previous liquid water on Mars or microbial life on Mars.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is there where we ask for peer reviewed evidence or official information to support your statements and you give us links to the alien autopsy guy and then claim we aren’t proper skeptics if we dare question any of it. Because I always enjoy that part of the thread cycle.

“UFO” is one of the most entertaining areas of expertise Lanny pretends to have, far better than criminology or business. Personally, I prefer psychology, but thankfully once he starts pretending to be a UFO expert it isn’t hard to get him going about his discredited genius physicist friend who marvels at his understanding of human psychology.

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

I don't believe anyone is claiming aliens. in fact, that hypothesis is one of the lesser likely ones IMO.

I think he's just saying that most of the evidence, eyewitness accounts etc point to an intelligence that isn't human and is likely superior to ours given its apparent technical capabilities.

Come on, guy. You think “oh he’s not talking about aliens he’s talking about super intelligent mermaids from deep ocean” is a great response here?

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

“UFO” is one of the most entertaining areas of expertise Lanny pretends to have, far better than criminology or business. Personally, I prefer psychology, but thankfully once he starts pretending to be a UFO expert it isn’t hard to get him going about his discredited genius physicist friend who marvels at his understanding of human psychology.



Come on, guy. You think “oh he’s not talking about aliens he’s talking about super intelligent mermaids from deep ocean” is a great response here?

I think there is just a lot, a hell of a lot yet to be understood.

People often seem to like to throw out silly sounding superlatives like you just did to discredit this topic and those interested in it.

I wouldn't wager a single guess as to what's going on myself, but there is a vast array of possibilities and I find it all pretty fascinating to consider. I enjoy calmly discussing it, but this topic seems to really enrage people around here (not just here), making it tough to have any real discussion.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by karl262

https://imgur.io/a/NXjWQaN

This is a fun read, guy says he's part of a recovery/research group and has liver cancer so he's not interested in keeping it a secret anymore.

Enjoy!

This was an enjoyable read.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm one of those people who really wants to believe that there already is, or will be in my lifetime, proof of alien civilizations out there and some may be able to visit. It's fun to think about all the theories. I have a lot of interest in it, but am still on the skeptical side.

I just don't see why human origins can't be the source of this stuff. People say that we don't have the technology, but how would we even know? Obviously the person on the street doesn't have it, but we have no idea what the government and private sector contractors have been able to develop. Maybe humans have made advancements that are way ahead of what the keepers of the knowledge are letting on.

My theory is that countries like the U.S., Britain, and China, have crafts that can do some of the things that people report seeing. But I also think there is some pretty advanced deception going on as well. I think they have technology that can mess with instrument readings and create holographic illusions that fool even military pilots into thinking something is real.

I look at the holograms and drone animations shows the public sees, and assume the big militaries and tech companies in the world have things 100x as advanced that aren't in the public domain. I assume that with practically all technology in the public domain for the most part. Whatever we are using is likely generations behind some of the stuff that actually exists but is kept secret.

[Fuzz]

Your first sentence makes a good point, and why humans so often fall into that trap. They really want these long horizon type things to happen in their lifetime, and can convince themselves that it is happening. See all the end of the world cults, 2012, endless prognostications from religious groups of the end times coming, and on and on. It's a psychological trap people fall into, and it's not limited to now in time. It's been going on for as long as humans have been around.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by soreshins

I find it interesting that one of the main arguments against the government having recovered alien tech is that they are too incompetent to keep a secret like that. However, if we are to accept that UAP are previously unseen and exotic human developed technology then we need to accept that the government can, in fact, keep something like that secret. So which is it? Either they can’t or they can?

I think people have been seeing incidents for a long time (even though a number of alleged witness accounts of things are bs) and the thing that's helping any top secret project going on remain under wraps is the stigma around the subject.

The government has figured out that all they need to do is push some damaging PR out against anybody who talks and it muddies the water enough for the general public to discredit them.

I think even an incompetent government can manage that.

So really, their secrets have been leaking badly for years. They're just the beneficiaries of the human race being highly reluctant to take any accounts of things that sound extraordinary seriously. And the people that have seen them don't get enough of the picture to be able make sense of what they've seen. It works out pretty well for any government squatting on UAP tech/materials.

If what Bob Lazar claims is accurate in that small groups are assigned to specific tasks and don't get to communicate with each other, then if they end up spilling their info, it's very incomplete and doesn't give them the ability to answer any broader questions from people that want to be convinced.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

I think there is just a lot, a hell of a lot yet to be understood.

People often seem to like to throw out silly sounding superlatives like you just did to discredit this topic and those interested in it.

I wouldn't wager a single guess as to what's going on myself, but there is a vast array of possibilities and I find it all pretty fascinating to consider. I enjoy calmly discussing it, but this topic seems to really enrage people around here (not just here), making it tough to have any real discussion.

And people mischaracterize even the easiest criticisms as attempts to “discredit” the topic and those interested in it, as a way of sidestepping any need to address those criticisms or feel like they’re ceding ground to skeptics.

Just be real, someone says it must be intelligence that isn’t human and beyond our own… that is pretty limiting in scope, right? Like, you’re saying that nobody is saying “alien,” so it must be of this Earth, but that it isn’t human and is beyond our intelligence… which eliminates literally every known being or piece of artificial intelligence on Earth… so it’s… what? Why can’t it be a species that primarily lives in deep ocean, the least explored area on Earth?

It’s a fun conversation to have, but taking issue with terms like “alien” or “super intelligent mermaids from deep ocean” as silly sounding while defending the incredibly narrow and evidence-less “non-human intelligence beyond our own,” which might sound less silly but is the exact same concept as super intelligence deep ocean mermaids… also makes things tough? You kind of get that, right?

There is a vast array of possibilities, I totally agree! There are some that could be more likely than others, but are you really interested in having a conversation if your main focus is the semantics?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by GGG

That’s evidence of things we don’t yet understand existing.

That isn’t evidence of “they are controlled by an intelligence beyond our own”

Well I didn't claim that, so... ok?

Originally Posted by GGG

But what I would want before accepting the existence of non-human intelligent life is multiple independent reviews coming to that conclusion. Say the same standard for the research going on to find evidence of previous liquid water on Mars or microbial life on Mars.

Well of course that's what we want to achieve, everyone agrees with that. Water is wet and the sky is blue. Until those reviews happen though, there is a collection of building evidence to look into this further and galvanize more research into this phenomenon. That's the whole point. Doesn't discount the the testimonies and evidence that are now appearing - evidence that is released straight from the DoD as well.

[Fuzz]

So I'm curious then, lets discuss it. What are the new revelations now appearing? What has come out we haven't heard before that makes you think hrmm?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So I'm curious then, lets discuss it. What are the new revelations now appearing? What has come out we haven't heard before that makes you think hrmm?

Here's a Reddit megathread about the recent David Grusch whistleblower story (which is the latest development) with many links:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/commen...er_megathread/

Here's the Wikipedia page of the Pentagon confirmations of the UFO videos since 2017, complete with a ton of links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_UFO_videos

And here's a US Department of Defense site posted in April about the creation of the AARO (All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office), which is looking into this phenomena:

DOD Working to Better Understand, Resolve Anomalous Phenomena

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-St...ous-phenomena/

There's lots of interesting material here to start reading and looking at. Hopefully this helps as a start.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So I'm curious then, lets discuss it. What are the new revelations now appearing? What has come out we haven't heard before that makes you think hrmm?

Watch Bob Lazar tell his story then let us know if you think he's full of ####.

As an apparent skeptic I'm sure you've got some mental gymnastics lined up to find your way there though.

Personally, I don't know what people have seen and don't pretend to know, nor do i like to side with the accounts of people who are inclined to believe (because they're likely to twist the facts to support their beliefs), but I know people. And either Lazar is the most legendary conman or he's just a chemistry/physics nerd & scientist that had some extraordinary experiences working for the government and is retelling it like any average person recalling events without any preconceived notions about what it meant.