Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Ozy_Flame]

The minute you start paying taxes is when you should have the ability to vote. You're a taxpayer, right? And teenagers aren't just the stereotypes they have fit in. Some are logical and can make adult decisions, often better than adults can. And who's to say adults are any more qualified to vote for an elected official than a teenager? Look at all the crackpots and weirdos casting their votes for fringe parties.

That said, I also think there should be protections for youth vote to avoid influence or coercion into voting. My biggest fear with youth voting is having parents interfere with their right to freely choose their preferred candidate. Would love to see youth who are interested in voting go through a course on the electoral process and what to look for, and identify signs of vote manipulation from external forces.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That said, I also think there should be protections for youth vote to avoid influence or coercion into voting. My biggest fear with youth voting is having parents interfere with their right to freely choose their preferred candidate. Would love to see youth who are interested in voting go through a course on the electoral process and what to look for, and identify signs of vote manipulation from external forces.

This is so important.

My daughter voted for the first time this year. She asked who she should vote for in the Provincial election.

It was good, we had a long chat about one man/woman on vote and she didn't need to reveal or justify her vote.

But she did need to have an informed vote.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Personally, I'd be all for a basic general knowledge test to qualify someone to vote to weed out the dumbest of the dumb, but the problem is that I don't trust anyone to come up with the questions.

Question 1 of 1 - Do you align with my (author of questionnaire) political views?
Yes - I’m smrt
No - I’m a moron

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by Brendone

Question 1 of 1 - Do you align with my (author of questionnaire) political views?
Yes - I’m smrt
No - I’m a moron

That is about the gist of it

[DownInFlames]

I wonder if people with kids are more concerned about climate change, which is by and far the biggest issue that will affect their future.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That said, I also think there should be protections for youth vote to avoid influence or coercion into voting. My biggest fear with youth voting is having parents interfere with their right to freely choose their preferred candidate.

Parents are not perfect, but at least they tend to have their children's best interest at heart. Whatever hole you create by "protecting the youth" from their parents opinions will be filled by some other group. Influence and coercion is not something that just goes away...it is all part of adulting, and something we all have to learn to navigate. But if the goal is to prevent any political influence, we should probably start with schools and teachers. In your high school/college years, you are much more likely to be influenced by your teachers and peers than you are your parents. I remember more than a few professors at school who treated their class like a political soapbox.

But either way, I'm not a big fan protecting grown adults from open discussion. It's better to focus teaching critical thinking than to try to shield adults from the realities of life.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The minute you start paying taxes is when you should have the ability to vote. You're a taxpayer, right? And teenagers aren't just the stereotypes they have fit in. Some are logical and can make adult decisions, often better than adults can. And who's to say adults are any more qualified to vote for an elected official than a teenager? Look at all the crackpots and weirdos casting their votes for fringe parties.

That said, I also think there should be protections for youth vote to avoid influence or coercion into voting. My biggest fear with youth voting is having parents interfere with their right to freely choose their preferred candidate. Would love to see youth who are interested in voting go through a course on the electoral process and what to look for, and identify signs of vote manipulation from external forces.

This voting interference/coercion you worry about is already happening and is occurring at many different levels. All you have to do is look online at places like Reddit or Facebook to find examples of people that are trying to convince family members, friends or co-workers to vote a certain way or not vote at all.

Stuff like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Albertapoli...mom_to_at_the/

Or this (although this can be a bit of grey area due to the situation)
https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/com...isabled_adult/

[photon]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I wonder if people with kids are more concerned about climate change, which is by and far the biggest issue that will affect their future.

Well my parents say it's fake so I'm safe!

Long term I worry about that, short term I worry about my son being drafted to fight into a larger war that escalates out of the Russia invasion of Ukraine.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

This voting interference/coercion you worry about is already happening and is occurring at many different levels. All you have to do is look online at places like Reddit or Facebook to find examples of people that are trying to convince family members, friends or co-workers to vote a certain way or not vote at all.

Stuff like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Albertapoli...mom_to_at_the/

Or this (although this can be a bit of grey area due to the situation)
https://www.reddit.com/r/alberta/com...isabled_adult/

Conversation is not coercion.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

At very least, they should lower the voting age to 16 or even 14. If you can work a job, you can vote. I don’t see how that’s controversial, especially when governments run on whether they would cut or increase your wages and you have no control.

Alternatively (or even in conjunction with the above) cut it off at 65. Once you’ve hit retirement age and you’re back to being a financial drag on society like children are, it’s time to hand the keys over.

People over 65 should still get to vote. That is a terrible take.

They have paid taxes their whole lives (well, some have) and contributed to society for many years.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

People over 65 should still get to vote. That is a terrible take.

They have paid taxes their whole lives (well, some have) and contributed to society for many years.

And they got to vote their whole lives. Now they don't. Pretty fair.

We already arbitrarily cut off the voting age in one direction, so pretending like voting rights are banked over time isn't a great reason to stop cutting off the voting age in the other direction.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

It would be nice if people could just admit that their actual motivations in these types of conversations aren't really principled, and are in fact aimed directly at restricting access to voting for people who, overall, don't vote for the parties or candidates they support, while expanding access to voting for people who do. It's basically just the GOP strategy down south.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And they got to vote their whole lives. Now they don't. Pretty fair.

We already arbitrarily cut off the voting age in one direction, so pretending like voting rights are banked over time isn't a great reason to stop cutting off the voting age in the other direction.

The age at one end is set because people aren’t deemed mature enough to vote. People don’t automatically lose their minds when they turn 65.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

The age at one end is set because people aren’t deemed mature enough to vote. People don’t automatically lose their minds when they turn 65.

They don't? Aww crap... that was my working theory.

[Roughneck]

Old people need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Roughneck, would you please stop reading that Max Bernier pamphlet?

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And they got to vote their whole lives. Now they don't. Pretty fair.

We already arbitrarily cut off the voting age in one direction, so pretending like voting rights are banked over time isn't a great reason to stop cutting off the voting age in the other direction.

Only saw a commercial, but there’s a game show out there where people’s kids get to pick the prize if the parents win the game. Someone’s kid picked a Pac-Man arcade game instead of $50k (or something along those lines). So no, kids don’t get to vote. Having said that, lots of “mature” adults also choose the mystery box if it’s sparkly.

Maybe everyone gets a choice at the polling station. Would you like to vote, or take a chance on what’s in the mystery box? Could strip out dumb dumbs of any age.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It would be nice if people could just admit that their actual motivations in these types of conversations aren't really principled, and are in fact aimed directly at restricting access to voting for people who, overall, don't vote for the parties or candidates they support, while expanding access to voting for people who do. It's basically just the GOP strategy down south.

I think we should just move to a system where I'm the only person who gets to vote in all the elections. It's the only way we can be sure to get the correct result every time.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Parents are not perfect, but at least they tend to have their children's best interest at heart. Whatever hole you create by "protecting the youth" from their parents opinions will be filled by some other group. Influence and coercion is not something that just goes away...it is all part of adulting, and something we all have to learn to navigate. But if the goal is to prevent any political influence, we should probably start with schools and teachers. In your high school/college years, you are much more likely to be influenced by your teachers and peers than you are your parents. I remember more than a few professors at school who treated their class like a political soapbox.

But either way, I'm not a big fan protecting grown adults from open discussion. It's better to focus teaching critical thinking than to try to shield adults from the realities of life.

Really?

In my experience, my family had a far greater influence on my political leanings at a young age.

While i will admit professors have political leanings (I took Poli Sci, Economics, and History - so of course that is going to come into play) the profs i had were far more concerned with having me think critically, and provide well sourced reasoning to my theses. I never suffered grading issues by challenging my professors own views.

As an example, if anyone had Mark Barron at UofC; he's a great prof who has a major focus on eastern europe - and Ukraine specifically. His views were certainly more left leaning; but that didn't stop me from writing an essay on the difference between poland and ukraine after the fall of the Soviet Union and the success of the "shock doctrine" in jump starting their economic fortunes compared to Ukraine.

I got a great mark on it, but of course there is far more nuance in that specific topic; and i no longer espouse the view i had in that paper. but that change has nothing to do with any indoctrination from a prof.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

This is so important.

My daughter voted for the first time this year. She asked who she should vote for in the Provincial election.

It was good, we had a long chat about one man/woman on vote and she didn't need to reveal or justify her vote.

But she did need to have an informed vote.

My daughter was a first timer as well- I just reminded her which's party's first priority when entering office was to rollback the minimum wage for workers under 18. She was one of the 25 extra that booted Shandro to the curb