[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[RobotTalk]

I like Lindholm as much as anyone and I'd be willing to sign him to a big money, long-term deal if we hadn't already locked up two forwards to big money deals well into their 30s.

Given the average scoring curve for forwards, which shows scoring peaks in their mid-20s and declines afterwards, I can't see how the flames will be successful if they've locked up 3 forwards into their late 30s.

We need to get retool and get younger; unfortunately, signing Lindholm to his retirement deal doesn't fit that requirement. He's our most valuable asset and we need to capitalize on that while we can.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Naa. No matter how you slice it Kadri and Coleman were never pieces to build around to deserve a long term contract at their ages.

I still have no issue at all with Coleman. He brings exactly what he was expected to bring.

Strong 200ft play
Great PKer
Gritty and Quick
Contributes offensively at 5v5
Effective even if not scoring

No issue paying him $4.9M at all.

He ranks 13th in individual xGF at 5v5 for the entire NHL...he could finish a lot better but he constantly generates chances and pushes play the right way.

27 Goals - T-98th in the NHL
62 Points - T-109 in the NHL

Nobody would have an issue with re-signing Toffoli to a 4 x $4.9M contract, and he has 25 goals and 60 points at 5v5 over that same time period. Coleman is only 5 months older than Toffoli.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Thank you for this.

And knowing this, I think the strategy should be to get guys signed to long term deals. Kadri is expensive at $7M, but if the cap goes up by 5% per year, it looks a lot less painful in 3 years.

$7M is 8.4% of next year's cap, then 8.0% in 24/25, then 7.6% in 25/26 (that is the equivalent of $6.25M this year)

The same declining ratios would apply for Lindholm (and everyone else, obviously). The contracts that look expensive now, are going to look good in a few years. We are already starting to see some players take short term deals so that they can get paid big in 2 or 3 years, and I'll bet we see more and more players doing this.

Get in front of it and sign Lindholm right now.

You're assuming that his production does not nosedive further from his PPG peak in order for the value to make sense like that.

If you end up paying Lindholm 8x8 to stay here, and he's only a 50-60 point player for 6/8 years of this new deal, you've now got a third forward not living up to a pricey contract well into their late 30s on a very sharp decline.

Even with the cap going up, you can't live with this many deals like this and expect to contend for championships unless your drafting and development is second to none.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Because Sec has shown his sources to be real and reliable. I don’t recall the same from you.

BS. Sec had not revealed any source nor should he. Let's review, my source had Gaudreau wanting to re-sign with the Flames, that was absolutely true until a list minute conversation with his wife where she convinced him otherwise. This has been confirmed by an actual insider and other sources as truth even though squiggs tried to say otherwise and I got piled on for that. That info was actually dead on, everybody in the Flames organization thought he was re-signing and they had reached a deal. I mean feel free to send a message to our new GM that he is not reliable because he admitted to believing the exact same thing. So when someone wants to throw Gaudreau in my face, feel free because even though he decided at the last minute to change his mind the info was solid. Then BT was fired and everyone went on about how the organization chose Sutter over him, Sutter was just extended and too expensive to let go, he isn't going anywhere. I got info that the Flames management were going to make a coaching change and so instead of just saying that and getting roasted again in case that info somehow changed I said I would be shocked if Sutter was back. Again, I got piled on and Gaudreau thrown in face and when I turned out to be right, where was anyone saying anything about that? Nope, just more piling on about the Gaudreau miss. My source had no leads for me in the coaching hire because he didn't know anything definitive, just what we all had heard. So I never once said who it will be, just who I would like to see. Sec's source had Love as the HC and he was wrong, it happens. Sources can get things wrong sometimes, or a team can pivot on something. When Sec has nicely shared his latest news everybody treats him like he is Elliot Friedman, nobody is throwing the fact Mitch Love is not the HC and that is great because it is valuable that he shares what he hears, even if it doesn't come to fruition. I share what I am hearing on Lindholm and what do I get? "Who is your source" Gaudreau V2.0" Just an absolute #### on by a community I try and share things with. So F it, I am out, my life is super crap right now and I don't need this. This is really my only interaction with a community I liked to enjoy but I am tired of being constantly crapped on here, life has already done that enough in the real world. I don't want to argue anymore, or fight anymore, or actually do anything anymore. F it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You're assuming that his production does not nosedive further from his PPG peak in order for the value to make sense like that.

If you end up paying Lindholm 8x8 to stay here, and he's only a 50-60 point player for 6/8 years of this new deal, you've now got a third forward not living up to a pricey contract well into their late 30s on a very sharp decline.

Even with the cap going up, you can't live with this many deals like this and expect to contend for championships unless your drafting and development is second to none.

For one thing, a 50/60 point player is NOT a third line forward. That player is playing on the second line of virtually every team in the league. For another, I think we are already approaching the realm where $8.0 m is the new range for first/second line 'tweeters. This is no longer star-player money, and within another two or three years it is going to be the market rate for good top-six forwards.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I'm not sure this is "good".

You don't think it is good that the Flames are actively negotiating with their most important and valuable pending free agent? I think a thorough exploration of every option is rather quite necessary, and it is better if the player is interested in participating in that exploration than not.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You're assuming that his production does not nosedive further from his PPG peak in order for the value to make sense like that.

If you end up paying Lindholm 8x8 to stay here, and he's only a 50-60 point player for 6/8 years of this new deal, you've now got a third forward not living up to a pricey contract well into their late 30s on a very sharp decline.

Even with the cap going up, you can't live with this many deals like this and expect to contend for championships unless your drafting and development is second to none.

That's true of every contract every team signs.

There is absolutely an expectation that as players age through their 30s, there will be some decrease in play. The question is how much? And the idea, when signing those deals, is that the early years are good value, and the later deals are lesser value.

But my point is that, when the cap rises significantly, those later years are significantly discounted, which makes their value not as bad.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

BS. Sec had not revealed any source nor should he. Let's review, my source had Gaudreau wanting to re-sign with the Flames, that was absolutely true until a list minute conversation with his wife where she convinced him otherwise. This has been confirmed by an actual insider and other sources as truth even though squiggs tried to say otherwise and I got piled on for that. That info was actually dead on, everybody in the Flames organization thought he was re-signing and they had reached a deal. I mean feel free to send a message to our new GM that he is not reliable because he admitted to believing the exact same thing. So when someone wants to throw Gaudreau in my face, feel free because even though he decided at the last minute to change his mind the info was solid. Then BT was fired and everyone went on about how the organization chose Sutter over him, Sutter was just extended and too expensive to let go, he isn't going anywhere. I got info that the Flames management were going to make a coaching change and so instead of just saying that and getting roasted again in case that info somehow changed I said I would be shocked if Sutter was back. Again, I got piled on and Gaudreau thrown in face and when I turned out to be right, where was anyone saying anything about that? Nope, just more piling on about the Gaudreau miss. My source had no leads for me in the coaching hire because he didn't know anything definitive, just what we all had heard. So I never once said who it will be, just who I would like to see. Sec's source had Love as the HC and he was wrong, it happens. Sources can get things wrong sometimes, or a team can pivot on something. When Sec has nicely shared his latest news everybody treats him like he is Elliot Friedman, nobody is throwing the fact Mitch Love is not the HC and that is great because it is valuable that he shares what he hears, even if it doesn't come to fruition. I share what I am hearing on Lindholm and what do I get? "Who is your source" Gaudreau V2.0" Just an absolute #### on by a community I try and share things with. So F it, I am out, my life is super crap right now and I don't need this. This is really my only interaction with a community I liked to enjoy but I am tired of being constantly crapped on here, life has already done that enough in the real world. I don't want to argue anymore, or fight anymore, or actually do anything anymore. F it.

I'm truly sorry you feel this way, but I do want you to know that there are plenty of people on this site that value you as a poster, and value your insights/sources. I hope you keep posting, and ignore the haters!

To whom it may concern: DROP IT ALREADY! JOKE'S OVER, HE'S HAD ENOUGH! If you want to trash people and bully, take it to HF Boards!!!

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

BS. Sec had not revealed any source nor should he. Let's review, my source had Gaudreau wanting to re-sign with the Flames, that was absolutely true until a list minute conversation with his wife where she convinced him otherwise. This has been confirmed by an actual insider and other sources as truth even though squiggs tried to say otherwise and I got piled on for that. That info was actually dead on, everybody in the Flames organization thought he was re-signing and they had reached a deal. I mean feel free to send a message to our new GM that he is not reliable because he admitted to believing the exact same thing. So when someone wants to throw Gaudreau in my face, feel free because even though he decided at the last minute to change his mind the info was solid. Then BT was fired and everyone went on about how the organization chose Sutter over him, Sutter was just extended and too expensive to let go, he isn't going anywhere. I got info that the Flames management were going to make a coaching change and so instead of just saying that and getting roasted again in case that info somehow changed I said I would be shocked if Sutter was back. Again, I got piled on and Gaudreau thrown in face and when I turned out to be right, where was anyone saying anything about that? Nope, just more piling on about the Gaudreau miss. My source had no leads for me in the coaching hire because he didn't know anything definitive, just what we all had heard. So I never once said who it will be, just who I would like to see. Sec's source had Love as the HC and he was wrong, it happens. Sources can get things wrong sometimes, or a team can pivot on something. When Sec has nicely shared his latest news everybody treats him like he is Elliot Friedman, nobody is throwing the fact Mitch Love is not the HC and that is great because it is valuable that he shares what he hears, even if it doesn't come to fruition. I share what I am hearing on Lindholm and what do I get? "Who is your source" Gaudreau V2.0" Just an absolute #### on by a community I try and share things with. So F it, I am out, my life is super crap right now and I don't need this. This is really my only interaction with a community I liked to enjoy but I am tired of being constantly crapped on here, life has already done that enough in the real world. I don't want to argue anymore, or fight anymore, or actually do anything anymore. F it.

The difference in delivery might be a part of it, but I don't mind whenever you post insights that you've heard from your sources, even if they're wrong.
I'm sorry you're having a rough time of it though, so I hope things get better for you and you can go back to arguing for fun instead.

[TheIronMaiden]

I think that the Flames should sell high on Toffoli, no doubt a great player, but at this point they could use a handful of futures.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Coming off of a bad year is absolutely the worst time to trade Markstrom. I think you only move him this offseason if there are unresolvable cap constraints, but he will almost certainly be a more valuable commodity after a better year. I can't see how he will be anywhere near as bad in 2023-24.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

Markstrom isn't young. Very possible he's just toast and this is your last chance to get out of his contract without it being a complete contract dump. He's been bad for 2 of the last 3 years.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I still have no issue at all with Coleman. He brings exactly what he was expected to bring.

Strong 200ft play
Great PKer
Gritty and Quick
Contributes offensively at 5v5
Effective even if not scoring

No issue paying him $4.9M at all.

He ranks 13th in individual xGF at 5v5 for the entire NHL...he could finish a lot better but he constantly generates chances and pushes play the right way.

27 Goals - T-98th in the NHL
62 Points - T-109 in the NHL

Nobody would have an issue with re-signing Toffoli to a 4 x $4.9M contract, and he has 25 goals and 60 points at 5v5 over that same time period. Coleman is only 5 months older than Toffoli.

Yeah, I don’t there’s a lot of appreciation for the load that the Backlund-Coleman pairing carries. They’re the bedrock of the forward corps.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

BS. Sec had not revealed any source nor should he. Let's review, my source had Gaudreau wanting to re-sign with the Flames, that was absolutely true until a list minute conversation with his wife where she convinced him otherwise. This has been confirmed by an actual insider and other sources as truth even though squiggs tried to say otherwise and I got piled on for that. That info was actually dead on, everybody in the Flames organization thought he was re-signing and they had reached a deal. I mean feel free to send a message to our new GM that he is not reliable because he admitted to believing the exact same thing. So when someone wants to throw Gaudreau in my face, feel free because even though he decided at the last minute to change his mind the info was solid. Then BT was fired and everyone went on about how the organization chose Sutter over him, Sutter was just extended and too expensive to let go, he isn't going anywhere. I got info that the Flames management were going to make a coaching change and so instead of just saying that and getting roasted again in case that info somehow changed I said I would be shocked if Sutter was back. Again, I got piled on and Gaudreau thrown in face and when I turned out to be right, where was anyone saying anything about that? Nope, just more piling on about the Gaudreau miss. My source had no leads for me in the coaching hire because he didn't know anything definitive, just what we all had heard. So I never once said who it will be, just who I would like to see. Sec's source had Love as the HC and he was wrong, it happens. Sources can get things wrong sometimes, or a team can pivot on something. When Sec has nicely shared his latest news everybody treats him like he is Elliot Friedman, nobody is throwing the fact Mitch Love is not the HC and that is great because it is valuable that he shares what he hears, even if it doesn't come to fruition. I share what I am hearing on Lindholm and what do I get? "Who is your source" Gaudreau V2.0" Just an absolute #### on by a community I try and share things with. So F it, I am out, my life is super crap right now and I don't need this. This is really my only interaction with a community I liked to enjoy but I am tired of being constantly crapped on here, life has already done that enough in the real world. I don't want to argue anymore, or fight anymore, or actually do anything anymore. F it.

Nah man, just say #### ‘em and keep posting. I think you can get a bit heated which is why people pick away but at the end of the day, who cares what anyone thinks?

I valued your insight on the Lindholm situation, anyway. Keep it coming when you’ve got it!

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Please what?

Stop Stay

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Getback is so underrated here. Love his knowledge and additions to the site.

He's a perfect companion piece to sureLoss

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

He's a perfect companion piece to sureLoss

Sureloss, getbak, and MissTeek. Like the holy trinity for me.

[Poe969]

I'll bet Washington would give up their first+ for Lindholm. They don't want to rebuild and want someone to help Ovi break the record. I'll bet they could get them to pay a fortune for him.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'll bet Washington would give up their first+ for Lindholm. They don't want to rebuild and want someone to help Ovi break the record. I'll bet they could get them to pay a fortune for him.

1st + Borgstrom/Lapierre + Aube-Kubel let’s go!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'll bet Washington would give up their first+ for Lindholm. They don't want to rebuild and want someone to help Ovi break the record. I'll bet they could get them to pay a fortune for him.

They certainly wouldn’t need to give up more that their 8OA.

And I doubt they would do that until they know that Michkov has been selected.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They certainly wouldn’t need to give up more that their 8OA.

And I doubt they would do that until they know that Michkov has been selected.

Oh yeah I forgot that they were picking so high.