[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I agree with you, but it is difficult to pretend that our ancestors were not evangelical fanatics who loved supporting anti federal whackos.

That said, strong social programs are what makes this province and it's people so great. Let's not forget that.

Don’t know about everyone, but mine weren’t. They were hardworking lower socioeconomic Europeans who came here for opportunity and individual rights. By individual rights I mean things like land rights, not religious rights. Religion and federal politics had very little to do with it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Living in rural Alberta, the general feeling is that they would like a leader who is ready to push against federal policy. Some of it is ju-ju for sure, but some of it is based in genuine frustration. The Carbon tax as well intentioned as it is negatively impacts folks who need to commute, the new bills with respect to fertilizer, for example.

I was not convinced that the NDP cared about getting rural votes. I voted for them anyways, because believe in strong social welfare programs. Otherwise, there wasn't any campaign promise where I felt like they were fighting for me. faster internet, sure. Vague promises about health care better. Hard to imagine how, I already have to drive 35 minutes to the nearest hospital.

The carbon tax got worse under Kenney than Notley. His "push-back" backfired.

Instead of pushing back, negotiating key exemptions might have made more sense. And who's better at negotating compromises and getting deals with Ottawa - Notley (who got a pipeline) or Smith (who couldn't even shake hands properly).

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Your argument is boiling down to a government with a mandate of 52% of the popular vote shouldn’t at least somewhat try to listen to and represent the 44% of its constituents that voted for the opposition?

Not the ones who are leaving

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The carbon tax got worse under Kenney than Notley. His "push-back" backfired.

Instead of pushing back, negotiating key exemptions might have made more sense. And who's better at negotating compromises and getting deals with Ottawa - Notley (who got a pipeline) or Smith (who couldn't even shake hands properly).

I wasn't debating what is right, I was telling you what I think people wanted.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Don’t know about everyone, but mine weren’t. They were hardworking lower socioeconomic Europeans who came here for opportunity and individual rights. By individual rights I mean things like land rights, not religious rights. Religion and federal politics had very little to do with it.

I disagree, the UFA and Social Credit Party were extremely popular, long standing governments who lobbied against federal policy as populists.

[Lubicon]

I think I prefer the federal carbon tax to the provincial one we had to be honest but they were implemented in such different ways it's hard to compare the two.

Federal one is nice because not only do my wife and myself get a 'refund', both my kids do as well. So a good chunk of money back into our pockets.

Provincial one was good in that it targeted the money to projects. Some were stupid (light bulbs) and some were good (Green Line funding that was subsequently stalled when the UCP came into power). The rebates at the provincial level sucked because they were targeted (as usual) to only certain groups and my family did not qualify.

So at the provincial level our household received no rebates but the money did go to some decent programs that may not have been funded otherwise.

[ynwa03]

I thought today would be better than yesterday, but the overbearing feeling of impending doom has just got worse instead of better.

I spoke to my best friend last night, who is an ER doctor and they said they have already begun steps to leave the province. I am devastated.

We have so much to address in this province and I can’t believe I’m wasting my time and energy coming to grips with the election results. We should be scaling clean energy projects, defending 2SLGBTQ++ rights, and addressing the coming climate catastrophe. Instead we have taken two steps back and are fighting Trumpism from completely rotting the fabric of society.

I am looking at leaving the province as soon as possible. But I feel like there is no place to go? At this point I can imagine applying for MAiD because this is getting unbearable.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I disagree, the UFA and Social Credit Party were extremely popular, long standing governments who lobbied against federal policy as populists.

True. I was thinking more specifically of my two sets of grandparents and why they came here. Which was actually before the UFA and the province existed.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I wasn't debating what is right, I was telling you what I think people wanted.

Well, you did just a little more - you said it seemed like those people were ignored, using the tax as an example. It's just wrong and feeds into the resentment.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Don’t know about everyone, but mine weren’t. They were hardworking lower socioeconomic Europeans who came here for opportunity and individual rights. By individual rights I mean things like land rights, not religious rights. Religion and federal politics had very little to do with it.

Mine (well half) were moved here involuntarily.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by ynwa03

I am looking at leaving the province as soon as possible. But I feel like there is no place to go? At this point I can imagine applying for MAiD because this is getting unbearable.

Are you troll?

If not please go seek some psychological assistance, immediately. You should not be having thoughts of self harm. MAID shouldn't be joked about.

Your comments yesterday were also obtuse and strange, hence my question. You can't expect to monitor peoples votes, thats a ludicrous proposal. Challenge their votes all you want, but don't attack the notion of voting. Your views presented yesterday lead inexorably to a tyranny. The notion of philosopher kings ruling society is ancient, plato held it. It doesn't work because people become decadent in these situations and elites forget to rule responsibly during societal fractionation. It may work for a single generation under specific conditions, but you can't propose governing humanity on our current scale in similar terms.

Anyways, if you're earnestly feeling this way and not trolling, please see someone and talk. It will help. I am not trying to patronize you or speak down upon you, I am genuinely concerned if these are real thoughts.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

It was always a stereotype, but you could just deal with it. It didn't take over every discussion like it does now, and if it did, it wasn't filled with just hate filled BS. There was a filter that is now removed and it's made people worse.

There are multiple posters on this board who yesterdays accused ANYONE who voted UPC of being a racist and a bigot . But no one cared

But telling people who say they are leaving to leave garners pages of responses from the usual suspects

The extreme on both sides are always the issue , and the scream the most and loudest is more apparent with social media and the internet

But MOST people can still have a discussion on issues . Most people have their own reason for voting that isn’t “I’m a racist” or “I’m the only one who cares about my fellow citizen”

I will agree 100% I hate the “US vs Them” mentality that is being pushed in education and health care . I disagree throwing more money will solve the issue by itself / is the full issue , but also realize villianizing these people counter productive

People haven’t gotten worse . People as a whole have gotten much much better

You just hear from a loud minority over and over , from both sides

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well they have long memories, and Bill 6 passed by the NDP in 2016(?) has forever lost the rural vote.

Do they remember what the negative impacts were of that bill?

The biggest gripe I recall was surrounding WCB for anyone working on a farm when previously there had been no requirement for family members(or it may have been any farm workers in general but I’m honestly not sure) to be covered by insurance. The UCP modified this so that farmers could opt to use a private insurer instead.

Another big complaint was the fact that farm workers had the right to Unionize if they chose to. Despite legislation at the time that made it “easier” for workers to join a Union this lead to a grand total of 0 (ZERO) farms being organized in the time that they had that right(UCP took it away) so I’m not sure I understand why it was such an issue.

The only other complaint I can recall was the requirement that farm workers operating heavy farming equipment on highways would be required to have the appropriate licensing, the same as anyone else who would operate heavy equipment on a highway. I don’t recall this being repealed by the UCP but perhaps someone else would know.

Farmers play a crucial role in our economy and should be assisted wherever reasonably possible but I don’t think that these changes(aside from the WCB only rule, which is an easy fix if it truly was more expensive than private coverage) were terribly unreasonable or should justify never voting for a party again. There may be more changes that I’m not remembering, these are just the ones I remember being brought up in the media and hearing from farmers.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Ok, but that doesn't solve anything. You can't have entry level med students working in rural places, they're not qualified yet and could only work clerkships under actual docs. You also can't lock students into 10-year commitments when they haven't even being accepted into residency programs let alone wrote the CARMS exam.

There are some that might like rural communities (and yes that happens), but the system has to nurture them to stay in place, otherwise you get what is happening now - early retirements and getting the hell out of dodge.

This is accurate it is a 5 to 6 year commitment to be qualified as a family doctor in Canada, from the start of medical school to the end of residency for family physicians. That isn’t including the requirement for an undergraduate degree as well (two years technically but that is the exception). There isn’t a magic formula, especially when the government has recently tried to unilaterally implement contract changes that impacted family physicians the most negatively.

Rural is hard to attract to but this government has been driving them away. These are people who can work anywhere they want but who feel disrespected and treated poorly with a community that is anti science as shown by their actions in the pandemic.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It is a lot easier to leave a province than it is to leave a country. I know I'm getting offers and the only thing keeping me in this province is family. The newer graduates who don't have kids or family are leaving Alberta in large numbers from anecdotal perspective at least. We rely on more contract nurses and locum doctors to plug holes that are becoming increasingly evident.

I realize that but the Americans who screamed that were insistent they’d flee, to the point of discussing the best countries to move to. (Canada was often mentioned often, although weather was said to be a deterrent,)

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

This is accurate it is a 5 to 6 year commitment to be qualified as a family doctor in Canada, from the start of medical school to the end of residency for family physicians. That isn’t including the requirement for an undergraduate degree as well (two years technically but that is the exception). There isn’t a magic formula, especially when the government has recently tried to unilaterally implement contract changes that impacted family physicians the most negatively.

Rural is hard to attract to but this government has been driving them away. These are people who can work anywhere they want but who feel disrespected and treated poorly with a community that is anti science as shown by their actions in the pandemic.

I don't know why a doctor would even want to work in rural Alberta. They already have massive shortages, so your going to be working non-stop. You'll also have to deal with whooping cough outbreaks because your patients didn't listen to you about having their kids vaccinated, and instead figured God would sort them out. Maybe they demand a prescription for horse paste and won't leave until you give it to them.

It'd just be a hopeless depressing battle against stupidity. No thanks.

[jlemire]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Are you troll?

If not please go seek some psychological assistance, immediately. You should not be having thoughts of self harm. MAID shouldn't be joked about.

Your comments yesterday were also obtuse and strange, hence my question. You can't expect to monitor peoples votes, thats a ludicrous proposal. Challenge their votes all you want, but don't attack the notion of voting. Your views presented yesterday lead inexorably to a tyranny. The notion of philosopher kings ruling society is ancient, plato held it. It doesn't work because people become decadent in these situations and elites forget to rule responsibly during societal fractionation. It may work for a single generation under specific conditions, but you can't propose governing humanity on our current scale in similar terms.

Anyways, if you're earnestly feeling this way and not trolling, please see someone and talk. It will help. I am not trying to patronize you or speak down upon you, I am genuinely concerned if these are real thoughts.

While I didn't agree with what you posted yesterday, this right here is absolutely correct. No one should be considering harming themselves over an election. It will get better I promise. So if that was not a troll comment ynwa3 please please seek some medical help because you are worth it and there are people who care.

[Tron_fdc]

I think I recall bill 6 having something about minimum age for farm workers as well, which upset people who had their kids working.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I realize that but the Americans who screamed that were insistent they’d flee, to the point of discussing the best countries to move to. (Canada was often mentioned often, although weather was said to be a deterrent,)

Okay, but just hear me out on this… maybe they were all thinking of urban centres with idealistic dreams brought forth by a Michael Moore documentary and not with actual research. Just because other people said something doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive to be better.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Do they remember what the negative impacts were of that bill?

The biggest gripe I recall was surrounding WCB for anyone working on a farm when previously there had been no requirement for family members(or it may have been any farm workers in general but I’m honestly not sure) to be covered by insurance. The UCP modified this so that farmers could opt to use a private insurer instead.

Another big complaint was the fact that farm workers had the right to Unionize if they chose to. Despite legislation at the time that made it “easier” for workers to join a Union this lead to a grand total of 0 (ZERO) farms being organized in the time that they had that right(UCP took it away) so I’m not sure I understand why it was such an issue.

The only other complaint I can recall was the requirement that farm workers operating heavy farming equipment on highways would be required to have the appropriate licensing, the same as anyone else who would operate heavy equipment on a highway. I don’t recall this being repealed by the UCP but perhaps someone else would know.

Farmers play a crucial role in our economy and should be assisted wherever reasonably possible but I don’t think that these changes(aside from the WCB only rule, which is an easy fix if it truly was more expensive than private coverage) were terribly unreasonable or should justify never voting for a party again. There may be more changes that I’m not remembering, these are just the ones I remember being brought up in the media and hearing from farmers.

The details of the bill are really irrelevant, and they did amend it a couple of times fix some of the errors. But farmers do not like being told what to do and how to do it, especially by city folks and politicians.