[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

The leave if you don’t like it bit really grinds my gears. I’m third generation Albertan. My grandkids are fifth. My grandparents on both sides were homesteaders. One was here before roads or even a province. This is my home and I’m not leaving because some Johnny Come Lately rightist extremists want to remake the province in their vision. I guarantee their vision wasn’t shared by my parents or grandparents. I have a better idea. How about the right wing extremists get tf out of this province. I emphasize extremists. I’m fundamentally right oriented, as are most Albertans. But Trumpism has nothing to do with traditional RW conservatism.

Edit…Trumpism is closer to fascism than conservatism.

I agree with you, but it is difficult to pretend that our ancestors were not evangelical fanatics who loved supporting anti federal whackos.

That said, strong social programs are what makes this province and it's people so great. Let's not forget that.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The above is true of other provinces as well. The number of doctors practicing in Canada, especially primary care doctors, isn’t keeping up with population growth. And rural regions across the country have been suffering from worsening doctor shortages for over a decade now. These are well-recognized national problems.

It is in most places outside the prairies:

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The above is true of other provinces as well. The number of doctors practicing in Canada, especially primary care doctors, isn’t keeping up with population growth. And rural regions across the country have been suffering from worsening doctor shortages for over a decade now. This are well-recognized national problems.

Firebot is on point with the ‘grass is always greener’ remark. People in B.C and Ontario are also complaining about conservative governments, underfunding of education, and the crisis in health care capacity. On top of that, most people in those provinces are priced out of home ownership. So where, exactly, do all the people intending to leave Alberta plan to go where they won’t face those issues?

People who claim Alberta is suffering a net outflow of skilled professionals due to the politics in this province still haven’t offered any evidence.

I think the residence spots being unfilled in Alberta is a good piece of evidence. The rest of the numbers are all affected by Covid so not really able to glean information from.

I have always been suspext of the people will leave as a result of government. Especially in the Nursing and Education spaces where cost of living differences between Alberta and other areas produce meaningfully quality of life differences.

However in the Doctor space where income is no longer a concern and the demand is high the quality of your employment experience (not political party in power) is certainly going to influence where you choose to live. I think when people saying they are going to leave because of the UCP is not true. If they are going to leave it’s because they believe their working conditions are going to get ####tier (as a result of the UCP) so why bother spending 1/3rd of your time in something that frustrates you when you have a choice.

But in general no one is leaving because of the UCP they are leaving because the combination of Job/Lifestyle/Family/Weather is better somewhere else. The UCP is actively making one of those areas worse for them.

The solution to these problems in the long term is to dedicate spots at university for people willing to make 10 year commitments to rural medicine. Enough people want to be doctors that we have way more qualified applicants than spots so having one of the metrics to obtain entry is willingness to work in rural areas should be added.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Agree to disagree.

Half of Calgarians voted UCP. It’s clearly not the case that half of the people who participate in political threads on CP are UCP supporters. So CP is far from representative of voters in this city. Just like Calgary reddit isn’t representative either. These types of forums attract a small and unusual fraction of the population.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Half of Calgarians voted UCP. It’s clearly not the case that half of the people who participate in political threads on CP are UCP supporters. So CP is far from representative of voters in this city. Just like Calgary reddit isn’t representative either. These types of forums attract a small and unusual fraction of the population.

I never said CP was representative of the voters.. all I said is that is isn't left-leaning. The ANDP are not a left leaning party right now.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It is in most places outside the prairies:

Look at the trend lines for AB and SK.

If you are a new immigrant doctor why would you choose a province that hates doctors when they are needed around the country?

Pay the piper ruralers!

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Half of Calgarians voted UCP. It’s clearly not the case that half of the people who participate in political threads on CP are UCP supporters. So CP is far from representative of voters in this city. Just like Calgary reddit isn’t representative either. These types of forums attract a small and unusual fraction of the population.

It follows naturally as a process- you can view Tron's post last page for some of the background.

People who are more interested in social activities are likely to seek out areas of discussion with other likeminded individuals on passions, e.g. Calgary flames fandom. Those same people more interested in social activity are also more likely to also care about bettering society in general and avoiding this tribalistic Us vs Them behaviour that is coming to define modern politics. It would follow then, that as a pre self selected group of individuals more interested in social activities would more likely lean a specific way politically as well.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I still say that Notley should have shown up in Fort Mac wearing a #### Trudeau T shirt and a novelty sized contract saying she loves oil and gas.

All jokes aside, farmers, oil and gas workers are frustrated with federal virtu signaling. There has to be a balance the NDP can strike to promote social welfare while appearing to be pugnacious in the federal arena.

Someone living in one of those ridings would probably be better able to answer your previous question than I. Maybe that’s part of the issue though, not enough people on the NDP side listening to what they want, similar to how a lot of people think the UCP isn’t listening to what urban voters want.

I honestly don’t know what they could do as it appears that a number of lobby groups have basically made them out to be the devil in many of those ridings. And I say that knowing that not every person in rural Alberta is voting blue no matter what like some people try to say.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It is in most places outside the prairies:

Thanks for that.

Would still like to see evidence that the trends are linked to politics, and not retirements or the pandemic.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by GGG

The solution to these problems in the long term is to dedicate spots at university for people willing to make 10 year commitments to rural medicine. Enough people want to be doctors that we have way more qualified applicants than spots so having one of the metrics to obtain entry is willingness to work in rural areas should be added.

I can guarantee you the amount of physicians willing to sign a 10-year deal to work in rural medicine is a very, very small group, and no policy mechanism outside of giving them a bonus of millions of dollars is worth it at the moment to be a rural family doc - especially in Alberta. Look at the ones that have left, it's incredibly hard to run a practice with the pay as it is, and having to pay for the overhead of a clinic.

A better plan is to raise compensation for rural docs, ensure their clinics are well-staffed (e.g. nurses, admins), some level of overhead is covered, and allow young docs and med students to rotate through rural centres to gain experience. Then, family medicine residency programs can extend rural rotations for those interested. Also, having a more progressive program on urban/rural rotations for staff docs or within APDs can also help remote communities.

Making physicians sign long-term contracts to be sequestered will not be successful.

It might also help to improve the reputation of physician relationships with the province to help attract those willing to take residency placements. That's also a VERY good start.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Thanks for that.

Would still like to see evidence that the trends are linked to politics, and not retirements or the pandemic.

You're looking at the evidence. The pandemic effected all of these jursidicstions more or less evenly, and it's likely the rate of retirement in each is relatively consistent over long scale time periods. It wouldn't make sense for Alberta, as the youngest province on average, to have an overwhelming proportion of older doctors than the rest of the provinces.

[BlackArcher101]

I think one only has to look at the arrogance and general as$hattery of the posters saying you lost, get over it, leave or don't let the door hit you on the way out and realize it's not just the election loss that makes people contemplate moving. It's also their supporters that that think this is proper behavior and actually act this way in real life. If you feel a large number of people are like this in your community and you can feel the hatred getting to you, why would you continue putting up with it? I'm surrounded by it at work, and that makes me contemplate changing jobs, so why can't the same reality apply to where you live? One can only put up for so long hearing "Notley should be shot" and other misdirected complaints about things that don't even effect them. UCP supporters no longer feel they need a filter, and it shows. The hatred and divisiveness that I'm surrounded by has changed me in a negative way and it's time to escape it. I can't imagine what someone with young children is thinking. Actually, I do, I have a friend with a newborn and last year was already starting to make career plans for a transfer. No one is leaving because of results from this election, they are leaving because Alberta as they knew it is gone, the people are different, and there doesn't appear to be any drive to turn it around. Which is funny, because UCP think's that is exactly what they are doing.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I can guarantee you the amount of physicians willing to sign a 10-year deal to work in rural medicine is a very, very small group, and no policy mechanism outside of giving them a bonus of millions of dollars is worth it at the moment to be a rural family doc - especially in Alberta. Look at the ones that have left, it's incredibly hard to run a practice with the pay as it is, and having to pay for the overhead of a clinic.

A better plan is to raise compensation for rural docs, ensure their clinics are well-staffed (e.g. nurses, admins), some level of overhead is covered, and allow young docs and med students to rotate through rural centres to gain experience. Then, family medicine residency programs can extend rural rotations for those interested. Also, having a more progressive program on urban/rural rotations for staff docs or within APDs can also help remote communities.

Making physicians sign long-term contracts to be sequestered will not be successful.

It might also help to improve the reputation of physician relationships to help attract those willing to take residency placements. That's also a VERY good start.

Not physicians, students wanting to enter medicine. If you added rural medicine spots to the U of A and U of C I would bet you they would fill immediately.

You would be selecting a different but still qualified pool of applicants and the hope is that in 10 years they have built roots in the community.

I do agree all of the things on your list should be done too.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

This is alberta, it is what it is!

What an inspiring vision for the future.

This exactly

Imagine wanting to improve the place you live!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah I'm not a fan of the sour grapes mentality. It's a four year max term, not an eternity. If politics means that much to you that you would actually uproot your family because you don't like the party that just got elected for a term then maybe you should consider getting into politics seeing it's that important to your day to day life and clearly this province and country need better people entering politics given the dearth of quality candidates federally or provincially. If you really want change then get more involved in supporting your party of choice. Or you could maybe focus more on day to day living and the good things in life rather than wasting time being constantly angry about things that are out of your control. I don't like Smith but I also don't like Trudeau and I've still managed to enjoy life under his Liberal government. The worst thing about the US to me is just how consumed the masses are with politics and I see some people here caught in the same trap. Relax. If Smith is truly the disaster many of us think she is, she's not likely to last an entire term as PM anyway.

This ain't sour grapes. Like I said, I've lived here all my life (except one year in Ottawa) and haven't moved despite Getty, Klein, Kenney, et al. That was politics. This is more. It's not a matter of "not liking" Smith. It's the movement she represents, it's the visible support for that movemnent here.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Would love to see these stats on who’s leaving. I hope that it’s not just fear mongering because that’s all you have left when you take your bell and go home.

You lost get over it.

Yes.

You won.

Make stupid choices. Win stupid prizes.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Also, if you haven't yet established that we know each other in real life, you're far more stupid than I thought.

Thoughts & Prayers to you, in real life

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This election begs the question, what does the NDP need to do to attract voters from suburbs, small cities, towns, acreages and farmers.

Wait for them to die

The farmers I know will vote the same way their entire lives...the candidate, policy, ect. Doesn't matter.

It's like the politician wolf telling the sheep "I am going to eat you"

And the sheep saying

"At least he tells it like it is"

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Which is funny, because UCP think's that is exactly what they are doing.

Funny in that dreadful, horrifying way that drains you internally.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Thanks for that.

Would still like to see evidence that the trends are linked to politics, and not retirements or the pandemic.

Well, the pandemic and retirements existed everywhere. So that just can't be a difference maker (well, provincial responses to the pandemic made jobs harder so there's that).

It's not politics though. It's policy. "Politics" implies that people move because they don't like who won. Moving because of policy means that they are moving because of what those politicians did - how hard they made life for these people.