[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[Tron_fdc]

I listened to a good talk on the "leave if you don't like it" line of thinking I keep hearing the past few days.

Left leaning individuals (as well as *gasp* socialists) really only have one thing in mind, and that's the collective success of society. As someone who is centre-left, I care about my fellow humans no matter what political leanings they have. I actually want to collectively make the city/province/country I live in better. I want social programs, healthcare and education that everyone benefits from, INCLUDING "right wingers".

Conservatives, who demonize certain groups or constantly throw out the "leave if you don't like it" nonsense really only have one thing in mind, and that's their own individual selfish desires. Then they try to weaponize their votes to "own the libs" or hurt certain members of society for no particular reason (that I can see, anyway) and for what? An ego stroke? It comes across as a group of mouth breathers so intent on punishing certain left leaning groups that they are literally cutting off their nose to spite their face, and high five each other while doing it.

If you think like this, you have totally lost the plot IMO because THAT is what is holding up progression here.

[Reggie Dunlop]

The League of the Extraordinarily No Good.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I listened to a good talk on the "leave if you don't like it" line of thinking I keep hearing the past few days.

Left leaning individuals (as well as *gasp* socialists) really only have one thing in mind, and that's the collective success of society. As someone who is centre-left, I care about my fellow humans no matter what political leanings they have. I actually want to collectively make the city/province/country I live in better. I want social programs, healthcare and education that everyone benefits from, INCLUDING "right wingers".

Conservatives, who demonize certain groups or constantly throw out the "leave if you don't like it" nonsense really only have one thing in mind, and that's their own individual selfish desires. Then they try to weaponize their votes to "own the libs" or hurt certain members of society for no particular reason (that I can see, anyway) and for what? An ego stroke? It comes across as a group of mouth breathers so intent on punishing certain left leaning groups that they are literally cutting off their nose to spite their face, and high five each other while doing it.

If you think like this, you have totally lost the plot IMO because THAT is what is holding up progression here.

But this is Alberta it is what it is. Truly if you don’t like it why not leave?

Why does it need to change to your “values” ?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by opendoor

A few things:

1) That doesn't represent migration; it's simply the number of doctors who are practising in Alberta in different time periods, so that includes losses to retirement and whatnot.

2) That's not a particularly encouraging stat. Alberta had 254 more doctors at the end of 2022 vs. the end of 2021. But that only represents a 2.3% increase in a province that had its population increase by 3.7% in the same time period. So they'd need to increase that by 60% just to maintain the same ratio as before, never mind actually improve things.

3) If you look at the regional breakdown, the growth was almost entirely in the cities. The South Zone actually lost almost 4% of their doctors in the last year and the North Zone was more or less flat. That doesn't bode well for the future of medical access outside the cities.

The above is true of other provinces as well. The number of doctors practicing in Canada, especially primary care doctors, isn’t keeping up with population growth. And rural regions across the country have been suffering from worsening doctor shortages for over a decade now. These are well-recognized national problems.

Firebot is on point with the ‘grass is always greener’ remark. People in B.C and Ontario are also complaining about conservative governments, underfunding of education, and the crisis in health care capacity. On top of that, most people in those provinces are priced out of home ownership. So where, exactly, do all the people intending to leave Alberta plan to go where they won’t face those issues?

People who claim Alberta is suffering a net outflow of skilled professionals due to the politics in this province still haven’t offered any evidence.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I listened to a good talk on the "leave if you don't like it" line of thinking I keep hearing the past few days.

Left leaning individuals (as well as *gasp* socialists) really only have one thing in mind, and that's the collective success of society. As someone who is centre-left, I care about my fellow humans no matter what political leanings they have. I actually want to collectively make the city/province/country I live in better. I want social programs, healthcare and education that everyone benefits from, INCLUDING "right wingers".

Conservatives, who demonize certain groups or constantly throw out the "leave if you don't like it" nonsense really only have one thing in mind, and that's their own individual selfish desires. Then they try to weaponize their votes to "own the libs" or hurt certain members of society for no particular reason (that I can see, anyway) and for what? An ego stroke? It comes across as a group of mouth breathers so intent on punishing certain left leaning groups that they are literally cutting off their nose to spite their face, and high five each other while doing it.

If you think like this, you have totally lost the plot IMO because THAT is what is holding up progression here.

Very well said.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Yes that def what the article is trying to convey.

You didn't read past the headline did you?

[TheIronMaiden]

This election begs the question, what does the NDP need to do to attract voters from suburbs, small cities, towns, acreages and farmers.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yoho

But this is Alberta it is what it is. Truly if you don’t like it why not leave?

Why does it need to change to your “values” ?

Your argument is boiling down to a government with a mandate of 52% of the popular vote shouldn’t at least somewhat try to listen to and represent the 44% of its constituents that voted for the opposition?

[Ford Prefect]

The leave if you don’t like it bit really grinds my gears. I’m third generation Albertan. My grandkids are fifth. My grandparents on both sides were homesteaders. One was here before roads or even a province. This is my home and I’m not leaving because some Johnny Come Lately rightist extremists want to remake the province in their vision. I guarantee their vision wasn’t shared by my parents or grandparents. I have a better idea. How about the right wing extremists get tf out of this province. I emphasize extremists. I’m fundamentally right oriented, as are most Albertans. But Trumpism has nothing to do with traditional RW conservatism.

Edit…Trumpism is closer to fascism than conservatism.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This election begs the question, what does the NDP need to do to attract voters from suburbs, small cities, towns, acreages and farmers.

A better question might be is there anything they could do to appeal to enough of those voters to win?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Firebot

What do you describe as centrist? Clearly your definition is different than mine. I see myself as right of center, for what its worth and voted for Liberals (yes I've voted for Trudeau), Conservative and now provincial NDP in the past decade.

Centrist I would describe as pragmatic to most of the issues. Someone who is open to varying opinions but requires a well thought out discussion with pros and cons and not relying as much on the political dogma. Centrist people will understand that there is a Climate Emergency and something must be done, but balance that with the economy and the needs of the market. They will look at taxes as an overarching requirement for getting government services, but also not want to be taxed to death.

For comparison I would consider myself a pretty firm Left-winger, which is why I laugh at calling this place left wing. I would argue that the Just Transition is completely necessary and that the climate emergency is so real that 2050 is not soon enough and we NEED to get emissions down by 2035. I think the healthcare system is already over-privatized and needs to be more public, and that should increase taxes, especially on those making over $200k a year and corporations. I think unions need to be a lot stronger and we need to fully stop with all corporate welfare. Basically, if I actually started talking about real left leaning ideals, I would end up being called a moron just as much as UCP voters are getting it now.

This election was a choice between the centre and the right. I support the left wing style of the Federal NDP and tolerate the ANDP stance because I feel that the UCP is so much worse, but I am under no illusions that the ANDP represent my left wing values as solidly as they did 10 years ago. I am a left winger, and this forum is not a safe place for me if I wanted to talk about the real issues I believe in, so like voting for Redford, I will accept that what I want isn't even close to the feeling of the majority of Albertans but recognize how much worse the Wildrose is.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

A better question might be is there anything they could do to appeal to enough of those voters to win?

This is a good question. I think the election showed that there is a fundamental cap on the NDP party. The third most votes went to the green party- that shows that the NDP moved far enough centre to abandon some of their traditional firm base. They also weren't far enough centre to steal votes from Danielle. Call it a name thing, maybe it's a personal thing with the leader, but there's clearly a cap here that doesn't effect the right's ability to unite disparate voters and get elected.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

The leave if you don’t like it bit really grinds my gears. I’m third generation Albertan. My grandkids are fifth. My grandparents on both sides were homesteaders. One was here before roads or even a province. This is my home and I’m not leaving because some Johnny Come Lately rightist extremists want to remake the province in their vision. I guarantee their vision wasn’t shared by my parents or grandparents. I have a better idea. How about the right wing extremists get tf out of this province. I emphasize extremists. I’m fundamentally right oriented, as are most Albertans. But Trumpism has nothing to do with traditional RW conservatism.

There was a time in Alberta when social services were protected, and conservative governance meant more adherence to economic mechanisms that temper public spending - in other words, fiscal constraint but with community values in mind. And at the same time, conservatism also respected the rights of individuals and their freedom to be themselves, as it was no place of the government's to be inspecting people's personal lives and judging them accordingly.

Modern conservatism has wandered so far from that once respectable public policy approach and gone down the populist rabbit role peddling dangerous answers, it's hard to see it return to its former self.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

A better question might be is there anything they could do to appeal to enough of those voters to win?

I still say that Notley should have shown up in Fort Mac wearing a #### Trudeau T shirt and a novelty sized contract saying she loves oil and gas.

All jokes aside, farmers, oil and gas workers are frustrated with federal virtu signaling. There has to be a balance the NDP can strike to promote social welfare while appearing to be pugnacious in the federal arena.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Yoho

But this is Alberta it is what it is. Truly if you don’t like it why not leave?

Why does it need to change to your “values” ?

"My" values represent almost half the province, and based on "my" broad life experiences, they are values that are important to the inclusive society I want to live and spend time in.

I also don't want other people to leave. I don't want neoconservatives to go (well, maybe some of them can like the ultra racist bigots). Because in a democracy, it's important that all people have a voice and are included, because listening to those voices can actually help you move forward.

It's bizarre you don't understand that.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

The leave if you don’t like it bit really grinds my gears. I’m third generation Albertan. My grandkids are fifth. My grandparents on both sides were homesteaders. One was here before roads or even a province. This is my home and I’m not leaving because some Johnny Come Lately rightist extremists want to remake the province in their vision. I guarantee their vision wasn’t shared by my parents or grandparents. I have a better idea. How about the right wing extremists get tf out of this province. I emphasize extremists. I’m fundamentally right oriented, as are most Albertans. But Trumpism has nothing to do with traditional RW conservatism.

Edit…Trumpism is closer to fascism than conservatism.

The UCP's values are not Canadian values, so maybe they should get out. Go to Florida if you love that lifestyle so much, leave us to care for our fellow citizens.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Firebot

What do you describe as centrist? Clearly your definition is different than mine.

Everyone defines it differently, that what IMO makes the concept of that made up divisive spectrum so silly.

[Monahammer]

This is alberta, it is what it is!

What an inspiring vision for the future.

[Stewie991]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The UCP's values are not Canadian values, so maybe they should get out. Go to Florida if you love that lifestyle so much, leave us to care for our fellow citizens.

Majority of Albertans seem to disagree.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Yoho

But this is Alberta it is what it is. Truly if you don’t like it why not leave?

Why does it need to change to your “values” ?

Because winning an election doesn't mean governing for yourself but for the entire population, even those who didn't vote for you. Like holy #### I can't believe that I have to explain that to you.

Close to 50% of the population didn't vote for you, that should give some pause for a sober second thought, should it not? Or do their values not count because they are on a different team?

I really don't think that you are a good or reasonable person. I know a lot of conservatives, including many deputy ministers and people in government. I enjoy talking with them and I respect them... You on the other hand seem like a bore.