[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Muta

Saying working hard makes you rich is myopic at best. That's quite a significant misunderstanding of the actual work climate out there and the opportunities available per each individual / family. There's lots of people working their butts off out there, for jobs that need to be done but aren't glamorous, but at least pay the bills. There's lots that are wealthy from working hard too. But working doesn't necessarily directly equate to being 'rich'.

I would argue there is almost zero correlation to working hard = being rich

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Muta

Saying working hard makes you rich is myopic at best. That's quite a significant misunderstanding of the actual work climate out there and the opportunities available per each individual / family. There's lots of people working their butts off out there, for jobs that need to be done but aren't glamorous, but at least pay the bills. There's lots that are wealthy from working hard too. But working doesn't necessarily directly equate to being 'rich'.

I couldn't agree with you more on that sentiment. 100%. There are people breaking their backs for less than they deserve, I would never deny that.

Where I tend to disagree is with is the idea that wealthy people usually fall into it. Generational wealth, yeah sure. But all the self made millionaires I know have terminal Workaholism. It's almost sad the amount of time they commit to their ventures at the expense of having a life.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by pylon

This can certainly go both ways. My dad had an bulge/aneurysm on his aorta. He was told, "Lifting a 10 pound box, could kill you before you hit the ground." Oh, BTW there's a 10% chance you die on the table at your age. He was then placed on a waitlist and told to wait for a surgeon. 6 months had passed and he was couch ridden, depressed, gaining weight from lack of activity and losing hope. He's 82, and I believe they were hoping he'd die before his appointment.

Meanwhile his 75 year old brother in Seattle went for a routine checkup and was on the table for a triple bypass within 72 hours of them finding an issue.

Money was no issue to my parents, and when my mother started making some calls, and looked into getting the Surgery in the States they miraculously managed to hustle him in within days when they caught wind of this. If they lived in US he would have already had his Aorta replaced and been swinging his golf clubs again. The wait would have been days not months.

I'm sorry, I am as capitalist as they come. I have worked very, VERY hard to have what I have, and made enormous personal sacrifices to get to where I am. As have thousands of well off people in this province. I believe if I have the means, and I am willing to pay out of pocket to save my own life or the life of a family member, I shouldn't have to get on an Airplane and fly thousands of kilometers. That should be available to me in my own backyard, and the fact it isn't and I could die as a result tells me the system IS broken.

There's gotta be something in the middle.

I understand the frustration of not being able to help someone in a difficult medical situation. I made a much less critical or costly decision to pay for an MRI for my daughter's chronic port-concussion issues. I understand the argument of a paid-tier taking pressure off the public tier, but would be concerned about it draining already scarce medical staff from the public system.

The root of the problem is that what you experienced is unacceptable but governments and the medical community seem unable to deal with it. I've yet to hear any comprehensive analysis of the system, it's bottlenecks, and opportunities for efficiencies. Efficiencies that promoters of private care assure us are there.

Alberta prides itself on having top notch engineering and technical capabilities, as evidenced by the success of the oil sands, etc. It's time to turn the medical system problem over to the engineers. No, not to come up with better treatments, but to de-bottleneck and rationalize the system top to bottom. We're good at that kind of stuff, and there's no shortage of subject matter experts to work with in the medical community. We need a moonshot program for the health system and get the best minds in the province working on it.

Ok, maybe a crazy idea, but I'll wait for someone to tell me a better one.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by zamler

This is a nice dream. Making it happen is a whole other thing.

It doesn't need to be a dream. It is some crazy socialist ideal. Germany is a great example. It also has the benefit of also training more skilled workers and attracting companies to invest in the area.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by pylon

Now I gotta figure out what returning banned poster you are......LOL

You're going back a decade or so with that one.

Someone will PM you, Scorp or Cecil

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Do you hang out with the people working retail, in warehouses, and packing plants? They are making like 30-45k gross, I'd consider that poor if they are supporting a family.

Originally Posted by zamler

So what is your solution to this?

I can’t think of anything

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I understand the frustration of not being able to help someone in a difficult medical situation. I made a much less critical or costly decision to pay for an MRI for my daughter's chronic port-concussion issues. I understand the argument of a paid-tier taking pressure off the public tier, but would be concerned about it draining already scarce medical staff from the public system.

The root of the problem is that what you experienced is unacceptable but governments and the medical community seem unable to deal with it. I've yet to hear any comprehensive analysis of the system, it's bottlenecks, and opportunities for efficiencies. Efficiencies that promoters of private care assure us are there.

Alberta prides itself on having top notch engineering and technical capabilities, as evidenced by the success of the oil sands, etc. It's time to turn the medical system problem over to the engineers. No, not to come up with better treatments, but to de-bottleneck and rationalize the system top to bottom. We're good at that kind of stuff, and there's no shortage of subject matter experts to work with in the medical community. We need a moonshot program for the health system and get the best minds in the province working on it.

Ok, maybe a crazy idea, but I'll wait for someone to tell me a better one.

As an engineer I want to say thanks for the acknowledgement. Also as an engineer, are you on drugs? Haha

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It doesn't need to be a dream. It is some crazy socialist ideal. Germany is a great example. It also has the benefit of also training more skilled workers and attracting companies to invest in the area.

Companies looking to invest in Alberta will be backing away quickly if the NDP gets in, just saying.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It doesn't need to be a dream. It is some crazy socialist ideal. Germany is a great example. It also has the benefit of also training more skilled workers and attracting companies to invest in the area.

How are we going to pay for it? Distributed wealth only goes so far.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Companies looking to invest in Alberta will be backing away quickly if the NDP gets in, just saying.

Cool and all to "just say" but do you have any evidence to back this up? Pretty sure the other Alberta Politics thread debunked this. Just saying.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Companies looking to invest in Alberta will be backing away quickly if the NDP gets in, just saying.

Evidence?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I would argue there is almost zero correlation to working hard = being rich

Outside of a genius stroke of luck I actually think people who have the desire to become ultra rich and do so have a broken brain. The little hoarding part of their brain never turns off. Most people I know would take a few million and retire. I know some people who have done exactly that. I also know two people who are both 20 million plus and are still at it plugging away to get richer, mind you, they came from doctor/c-suite family money, so no bootstraps lol. I personally don't get it.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by zamler

How are we going to pay for it?

Taxes lol. Taxes we use on social programs instead of cleaning up other peoples orphan wells and a big failed pipe line

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Evidence?

The last time the NDP was in charge?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by zamler

How are we going to pay for it? Distributed wealth only goes so far.

Albertans have the privilege of living in one of the most resource rich, politically stable regions in the entire world. They can pay for nearly anything they really value.

[Kaine]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

The last time the NDP was in charge?

So no evidence then...

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

The last time the NDP was in charge?

Which companies were looking to invest in Alberta and backed away when the NDP was elected?

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Someone will PM you, Scorp or Cecil

Oh no, this thread is way too much fun for that. The more accusations and speculation, the merrier!

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by zamler

How are we going to pay for it? Distributed wealth only goes so far?

How about re-jigging some of the the corporate welfare as a start?

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/arti...porate-welfare
Then there tax breaks companies get etc. There is a lot of fat to trim in the budget, it is just where to prioritize spending. Failed pipelines, war rooms, and arenas or investing in the Alberta population?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by fotze2

As an engineer I want to say thanks for the acknowledgement. Also as an engineer, are you on drugs? Haha

Maybe, but talking to people with engineering backgrounds who have tried to facilitate innovation in the health system it sounds like it's a mess. The leaders they dealt with were more academic in nature and more interested in writing papers than implementing change.

Engineers are more about getting results. And I'm not talking about the McKinseys of the world, I'm talking about actual humans.