[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by pylon

This can certainly go both ways. My dad had an bulge/aneurysm on his aorta. He was told, "Lifting a 10 pound box, could kill you before you hit the ground." Oh, BTW there's a 10% chance you die on the table at your age. He was then placed on a waitlist and told to wait for a surgeon. 6 months had passed and he was couch ridden, depressed, gaining weight from lack of activity and losing hope. He's 82, and I believe they were hoping he'd die before his appointment.

Meanwhile his 75 year old brother in Seattle went for a routine checkup and was on the table for a triple bypass within 72 hours of them finding an issue.

Money was no issue to my parents, and when my mother started making some calls, and looked into getting the Surgery in the States they miraculously managed to hustle him in within days when they caught wind of this. If they lived in US he would have already had his Aorta replaced and been swinging his golf clubs again. The wait would have been days not months.

I'm sorry, I am as capitalist as they come. I have worked very, VERY hard to have what I have, and made enormous personal sacrifices to get to where I am. As have thousands of well off people in this province. I believe if I have the means, and I am willing to pay out of pocket to save my own life or the life of a family member, I shouldn't have to get on an Airplane and fly thousands of kilometers. That should be available to me in my own backyard, and the fact it isn't and I could die as a result tells me the system IS broken.

There's gotta be something in the middle.

My father in law in his 70s at the time had an aortic aneurism and was in the hospital in days. In Alberta, in the 90s. The problem isn’t lack of privatization. It’s funding.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It's slowly testing the waters to move some surgeries to private. Were not throwing healthcare away. Even Quebec is trying this. This kind of exists now. You can pay for a CT Scan $900 tomorrow or wait a year.

Where are you waiting a year for a CT Scan?

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

A very few minutes of research would have told you this won't work, and it makes the public system worse. You have made a choice that will make my life worse. I've already waited 2 years for a referral(with a year to go!). If we had private care, that doctor(who also does private plastic surgery) would not be available to the public system at all, and the few doctors left would be even more stretched.


Your past choices of voting for a party that has managed to do what they have to healthcare, in, as you describe, a resource rich province, is open to critique. You are continuing to do the same, for the sake of lower business taxes(despite Notley campaigning on the lowest business taxes in Canada). I find this incredibly baffling as a priority, and maybe one day you'll get to experience what I have over the last 14. It has not been good, and because you are a part of that, I think it's fair enough to hold you to account on your vote for basing it on false premises.


I know Conservatives tend not to be compassionate about the suffering their choices leave on others, so I expect a lot of "I can make up my own mind" which, sure you can. But your choices affect everyone.

I had thought a two-tier system might work but your excellent case convinced me otherwise. Well done.

[fotze2]

Pylon is actually a really awesome dude and I respect him greatly. Hell we got threatened by the same piece of crap. I appreciate him being brave to post it here, you guys wanted a villain and you got one. Don’t agree with stuff he says (like all people I know) But maybe tone it down guys. He’s totally honest and hilarious. He’s a good guy.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by pylon

This can certainly go both ways. My dad had an bulge/aneurysm on his aorta. He was told, "Lifting a 10 pound box, could kill you before you hit the ground." Oh, BTW there's a 10% chance you die on the table at your age. He was then placed on a waitlist and told to wait for a surgeon. 6 months had passed and he was couch ridden, depressed, gaining weight from lack of activity and losing hope. He's 82, and I believe they were hoping he'd die before his appointment.

Meanwhile his 75 year old brother in Seattle went for a routine checkup and was on the table for a triple bypass within 72 hours of them finding an issue.

Money was no issue to my parents, and when my mother started making some calls, and looked into getting the Surgery in the States they miraculously managed to hustle him in within days when they caught wind of this. If they lived in US he would have already had his Aorta replaced and been swinging his golf clubs again. The wait would have been days not months.

I'm sorry, I am as capitalist as they come. I have worked very, VERY hard to have what I have, and made enormous personal sacrifices to get to where I am. As have thousands of well off people in this province. I believe if I have the means, and I am willing to pay out of pocket to save my own life or the life of a family member, I shouldn't have to get on an Airplane and fly thousands of kilometers. That should be available to me in my own backyard, and the fact it isn't and I could die as a result tells me the system IS broken.

There's gotta be something in the middle.

Is your suggestion that those who don't work VERY hard are worthy of less care? I've worked incredibly hard in my life, as has my wife. Sacrifices? Don't even get me started. We both, through no fault of our own, have had our lives changed long before old age with life changing health issues. We both lost the health lottery. We still work incredibly hard and pay taxes, despite having many many challenges. But we can't afford to fly to the States every time we need to see a doctor(or one of the 10 or so we both have to see). Most months I need the health system several times. I get that's probably hard to understand for some people, but that is why it is so important. If we were Americans, no doubt, my wife would be dead and I'd be broke, probably on a street in Portland. Instead we both contribute the best we can to society(and work in oil and gas!) and pay taxes.

Here's where your partisan blindness comes in. You think the system we have is the fault of the system itself never being able to provide timely care, but the reality is, that's exactly what the Conservatives want you to believe. They've spent decades molding the system into what it is, which is a failure. They've ignored countless reports and advice. And now the system is utterly broken. The solution isn't privatization for those who can afford it because they won the health lottery and were able to bank lots of money. You have allowed the system to become what it is by supporting a one party system, just like China has. And you have been abused by them, whether you recognize it or not. Voting one way for life doesn't make you committed to a cause, it makes you a tool to be used.

But the fact is, as you clearly state, you value your money more than you value healthcare for the less fortunate. There's a word for that. But it's not something Canadians typically hold as a key value.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by zamler

I'm all for taxing poor people on a scale, the less total income the higher they get taxed.

How is this different than the way it is now?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Why do people have to feel the need to put down other people's political opinion. I'll admit, I begrudgingly voted NDP for the first time ever, but just because I did, I'm not going to thrash other people for sticking with the UCP. They are voting for what they believe is right. This thread is like an NDP circle jerk, and anyone who doesn't agree gets shamed.

Do you honestly not see a difference between this election and any previous Alberta election? Danielle Smith is the worst party leader this province has ever seen, hell probably the worst that any province has seen. Voting UCP means you're ok with that, you're ok with all the crazy #### she's said and done in the last few years, and you're ok with her being so clueless about the actual powers and responsibilities that a premier has. It also means you're ok with them screwing up our pensions and ####ting on our healthcare workers

In a normal election I'd have no issue respecting differing opinions, but this isn't a normal election. On one hand you have a normal party with a good platform, and on the other hand you have a party overrun by a hardcore right wing element with a leader who idolizes Ron DeSantis. So if after everything we've seen and lived through over the past few months and years you still vote for the UCP, then honestly go #### yourself

[pylon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Where have you been, that is every topic on CP. If you are not on board with the most popular view you will get shamed and ridiculed. It is just a reflection of society and herd mentality.

And this is why I barely post anymore. I came in making a quite neutral post, and the mob decided I am Hitler and Trump X 10000 because I am willing to hear someone out on 2 tier health care.

I took the bait, and have nobody to blame but myself.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by zamler

I'm all for taxing poor people on a scale, the less total income the higher they get taxed.

Was this a typo? Honest question.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I find a lot of people fail to realize the advantages they had in life and really fall into the I did this all by myself trope. From my experience it is that they run in social circles where getting help from parents is the norm and then they see people who failed to take advantage of their circumstances and point to them as why they did it all by themselves.

I am in a really good job and I took a little bit of an unconventional path to get there but I could take some risks because my parents paid for university. A lot of people don't have that advantage and they should. I fell into a career that I would not have had access to if I needed something to start paying the bills right away. It really clicks with me and I have been able to go on a heck of a run with it compared to some of my colleagues but I started from second base.

I find it really annoying when successful start up/business founders say they did it all by themselves when really they had access to their parents network of connections/wealth and also knew they had a fallback plan in case they failed.
Pull yourself up by the bootstraps is the worst of it wrapped in a simple idiom.

This is such a good (and important) post. Thank you for sharing.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Pylon is actually a really awesome dude and I respect him greatly. Hell we got threatened by the same piece of crap. I appreciate him being brave to post it here, you guys wanted a villain and you got one. Don’t agree with stuff he says (like all people I know) But maybe tone it down guys. He’s totally honest and hilarious. He’s a good guy.

Nothing wrong with hashing it out

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by pylon

And this is why I barely post anymore. I came in making a quite neutral post, and the mob decided I am Hitler and Trump X 10000 because I am willing to hear someone out on 2 tier health care.

I took the bait, and have nobody to blame but myself.

lmao none of that happened. One guy asked you a straight forward question and you get mad.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by pylon

And this is why I barely post anymore. I came in making a quite neutral post, and the mob decided I am Hitler and Trump X 10000 because I am willing to hear someone out on 2 tier health care.

I took the bait, and have nobody to blame but myself.

Haven't you freaked out and asked to be banned twice now? Might be easier to just stop coming back.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by ripTDR

Nothing wrong with hashing it out

You got hash?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Boreal

How is this different than the way it is now?

Hope you're not serious. Top 20% income earners in Canada pay over 60% of all income tax. In the U.S. I think it's even more lopsided.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

This happens in China. People buy surgery spots like concert tickets at midnight and sell them on the black market.

If my favourite band will play my surgery then bring on the communism!

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Where are you waiting a year for a CT Scan?

In Calgary, last year. Brain CT Scan and MRI.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by zamler

What would you do to fix that? (I don't know anyone that works hard and is in poverty).

Seriously? How many single mothers do you know? Because that's the hardest gig there is.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by pylon

And this is why I barely post anymore. I came in making a quite neutral post, and the mob decided I am Hitler and Trump X 10000 because I am willing to hear someone out on 2 tier health care.

I took the bait, and have nobody to blame but myself.

C'mon dude, you bitched about hyperbole earlier and now you say this.


NOBODY said those things.

[nik-]

I want to know who the Ticketmaster is for China surgery tickets.