[News] Tempe voters reject the Coyotes Arena and Entertainment District

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I keep seeing people trying to compare Phoenix-area municipalities to towns around Calgary and it's just ridiculous. Mesa is absolutely nothing like Balzac. Scottsdale, Tempe, Chandler, Mesa, and Gilbert ALL surround it. There's no comparison to Calgary or really any other Canadian city except Toronto.

Whereas Glendale is way off in its own little world in the NW. No other major municipalities surrounding it.

Vancouver is kinda similar in directional layout - North and West Van and then a bunch of municipalities to the SE.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Why?

People don’t drive multiple hours to go watch a NHL game (well, I bet 99.9999% don’t anyway). People in Houston aren’t driving to Dallas, Salt Lake City driving to Denver, or Portland driving to Seattle. There’s a ton of markets to go exploit and make money from. I don’t really get the reticence to avoid expansion or growth personally (from an ownership perspective) other than the point that every market you expand into is one less market you can threaten taxpayers with relocation to fund new arenas.

Further, I think watering down the talent actually makes the product better (more mistakes leads to more exciting hockey).

Originally Posted by _Q_

28 in the US, 8 in Canada? It doesn't seem too far fetched.

currently there are 25 functional NHL cities in the US (24 minus Arizona which will very likely be on the move). To get to 36 teams, you need 5 more cities.

Not sure what cities can actually support/want NHL? Atlanta is out, unless the NHL wants to got there a third time and strike out. So you have Houston, Sacramento? Milwaukee? Not sure who else?

Demand drives supply - there's a reason that Networks aren't having bidding wars for the NHL: the market isn't there.

the expansion fee is definitely enticing, but I don't think the market in the US has much more capacity then what its currently at.

[Ped]

Cooley confirmed the arena vote influenced his decision to go back to school:




https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...st-arena-vote/


THN rated him the top drafted prospect earlier this year.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

currently there are 25 functional NHL cities in the US (24 minus Arizona which will very likely be on the move). To get to 36 teams, you need 5 more cities.

Not sure what cities can actually support/want NHL? Atlanta is out, unless the NHL wants to got there a third time and strike out. So you have Houston, Sacramento? Milwaukee? Not sure who else?

Demand drives supply - there's a reason that Networks aren't having bidding wars for the NHL: the market isn't there.

the expansion fee is definitely enticing, but I don't think the market in the US has much more capacity then what its currently at.

Austin
SLC
San Diego
KC
Portland
Indianapolis
Hamilton

Some of these need buildings, and I don't think 36 is a great idea, but I think it's doable.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

currently there are 25 functional NHL cities in the US (24 minus Arizona which will very likely be on the move). To get to 36 teams, you need 5 more cities.

Not sure what cities can actually support/want NHL? Atlanta is out, unless the NHL wants to got there a third time and strike out. So you have Houston, Sacramento? Milwaukee? Not sure who else?

Demand drives supply - there's a reason that Networks aren't having bidding wars for the NHL: the market isn't there.

the expansion fee is definitely enticing, but I don't think the market in the US has much more capacity then what its currently at.

KC, Salt Lake City and Portland are commonly named as potential NHL cities.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Well we’ll have to agree to disagree then. ATL and phoenix were list as viable cities, but that doesn’t make them so.

We’ll see

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Austin
SLC
San Diego
KC
Portland
Indianapolis
Hamilton

Some of these need buildings, and I don't think 36 is a great idea, but I think it's doable.

Yep. The right owner with a sweet arena deal and there are probably 35 US markets that could support an NHL team.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Well we’ll have to agree to disagree then. ATL and phoenix were list as viable cities, but that doesn’t make them so.

We’ll see

There is no debate that Phoenix is a viable city. It is. Stop it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

There is no debate that Phoenix is a viable city. It is. Stop it.

Lol, just because you wish it so does not make it true. History says it is absolutely debatable. The team has bled money for years, you can absolutely make an argument it isn't a viable market and actually have the stronger argument in favour of that.

[jayswin]

I strongly believe Phoenix would be like any other number of southern markets if they had a proper downtown arena and stable ownership.

They easily would have been like Dallas, San Jose, Tampa or whoever else, but had things in their way.

1. They started in an arena not made for hockey, tried to get away from it and made a series of stupid decisions

2. Ownership carousel has been awful.

Give them a proper Tempe hockey arena with stable ownership group back in the late 90's and there'd be no talk of the "Coyotes fanbase".

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

There is no debate that Phoenix is a viable city. It is. Stop it.

The Mullet wasn’t even sold out at the game I went to.

It’s 5000 seats.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Goriders

The Mullet wasn’t even sold out at the game I went to.

It’s 5000 seats.

Every game is sold out. A ton of people linger on the concourse too, especially the side with the benches where the club is.

If tickets are bought, it is sold out.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

Every game is sold out. A ton of people linger on the concourse too, especially the side with the benches where the club is.

If tickets are bought, it is sold out.

Maybe I’m confusing posts, but didn’t you say that you hadn’t spent any money supporting this team in years?

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Maybe I’m confusing posts, but didn’t you say that you hadn’t spent any money supporting this team in years?

I wanted to see The Flames play here for what was most likely going to be my last live NHL game in AZ. I went to one game out of curiosity and it was actually an awesome experience.

But generally, I haven't bought a ticket, a hat, shirt, jersey.. zilch since 2019. I hope they figure it out and will always defend the potential of this market as viable but man.. build the damn arena already. This is the end of the road 100% if this last attempt doesn't fly the team is gone.

Coyotes executive need to not be so greedy and find a site without 1000 hurdles to jump through. Tempe was the path of most resistance of all time.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Ped

Cooley confirmed the arena vote influenced his decision to go back to school:




https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...st-arena-vote/


THN rated him the top drafted prospect earlier this year.

Funny and totally random throwaway line at the end of that article:

"Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont said Friday he's planning to meet with NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman about the possibility of moving the Coyotes to Hartford."

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

There is no debate that Phoenix is a viable city. It is. Stop it.

Of course there is debate. So far it has completely failed.

I owned a house in the West valley for 10 years and spent time all over the Phoenix CMA. There simply was little interest in the Coyotes.

People can blame the arena location all they want, but the arena was easily accessible from everywhere but the far south east.

People in large US cities are used to driving all over as part of their daily routine. If there was significant interest in the Coyotes it's not a hard drive from most of Phoenix.

I'm not saying it's impossible for Phoenix to work, but it's far from a certainty.

[Enoch Root]

Hard to generate interest or build a fanbase when the team sucks every year. There is no difference between Vegas and Phoenix, you just have one team that makes the playoffs and generates a buzz around the city, and one that doesn't. Add in the blunders of management, the stories about not paying rent, bad location, etc, and it's not a surprise that they have failed. But look back at when they moved to Phx, and made the playoffs - there was lots of interest.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Of course there is debate. So far it has completely failed.



I owned a house in the West valley for 10 years and spent time all over the Phoenix CMA. There simply was little interest in the Coyotes.



People can blame the arena location all they want, but the arena was easily accessible from everywhere but the far south east.



People in large US cities are used to driving all over as part of their daily routine. If there was significant interest in the Coyotes it's not a hard drive from most of Phoenix.



I'm not saying it's impossible for Phoenix to work, but it' far from a certainty.

My family has been in Mesa since 2010.

Had the arena been in Tempe, Mesa, Scottsdale or even DT Phoenix we would have had partial season tickets. We are within walking distance of the LRT and have personally taken it to watch sports.

Glendale was murder to get to for a 7pm puck drop. The arena location affected how many games we saw. I don't dispute your personal experience with accessing the games, I'm sharing mine.

Might be better with the South Mountain Freeway finished, but now we will never know.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Hard to generate interest or build a fanbase when the team sucks every year. There is no difference between Vegas and Phoenix, you just have one team that makes the playoffs and generates a buzz around the city, and one that doesn't. Add in the blunders of management, the stories about not paying rent, bad location, etc, and it's not a surprise that they have failed. But look back at when they moved to Phx, and made the playoffs - there was lots of interest.

Isn't this the case for any hockey team not winning games? The more games you win, the more people are going to come watch you win. It's a direct relationship. If you're sucking, which the Coyotes have been for over a decade now (I don't count Covid cup), then you aren't going to get people coming, especially when the arena was in freaking Glendale. No one wants to be there.

You get that stadium in Tempe (not anymore), Scottsdale, Mesa, Chandler, or even a shared stadium in Phoenix with the Suns, people are going to be surprised at how much better of a turnout the Coyotes will have. They've been revuilding the right way thanks to Armstrong, and they are still trying to align an arena deal for when they are supposed to be a team that is consistently competing for a playoff spot.

D Backs are meh
AZ Cardinals suck
Suns just got booted out of the playoffs and don't have a very good future past 2025

If the Coyotes start winning, are in a nice location, bills are getting paid in a timely manner (I have no defending statement for that), players are getting paid, then I don't see them having issues brining in revenue for the NHL. That's a whole lot of ifs though, but ifs that can be done.

The next problem the Coyotes face is if it's too late for some of the guys that have been on the team for a while and may want a change of scenery because of everything that has happened. Keller being the main focus.

[GioforPM]

Sorry for the big images but attendance over the years hasnn't been horrific given the team's poor record. Compare to Florida which is slightly better but obviously improves with winning. Point being - I'd like to see how they do with (a) a good location and (b) a winning record.



[IMG]https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attenda...tmi%5B%5D=5763[/IMG]