2023 NHL Draft Thread

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They are rewarded for it because they are currently low on it.

The draft definitely spreads out talent. Once you acquire more talent, your draft position worsens, and teams with less talent get a more favourable draft position.

No system is perfect, but you're simply ignoring the facts.

I’m not ignoring facts. We’re drawing different conclusions from facts.

Teams tank to cluster talent. It’s the explicit reason why they tank. How long they tank depends on lotteries and randomness. But it’s not like anyone thinks they aren’t tanking on purpose for 5-10 years.

If there are 100 talent points a year 99 go to ~5 teams. Based on luck and tanking 5 or so teams of 32 will get almost all the talent every decade. That isn’t distributed, or even close.

If you want proof just look at the tanking. it went from a few teams quietly to near a dozen overtly and another dozen teams media wondering why they aren’t tanking.

It is broken.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Let’s just see if this one can take a regular shift in the league first.

Ahem...be quiet.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

salary cap

Salary cap doesn't stop large market teams from essentially getting first dibs on the top free agents. I'm struggling to see how moving free agency younger will increase parity.

[bluejays]

I just watched a video where Craig Button is still contending Markstrom is a Vezina calibre goaltender. This is an insider. If anyone is willing to take him on, please take him off our plate at the draft. The guy is done.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by icarus

Salary cap doesn't stop large market teams from essentially getting first dibs on the top free agents. I'm struggling to see how moving free agency younger will increase parity.

True, the rangers were able to sign Panarin. Toronto was able to get Taveras.

Being able to sign the top UFA's when they turn 30 or so to huge deals hasn't proven to be much of a success to winning Stanley Cups.

Now, if those player were signing short term contracts at a discount with big market teams, you might have a point.

Drafting premium players and signing them to 8 years contracts early is the way to go. Pay for what they'll do in the future as opposed to what they've done in the past. Ottawa has signed their young core prior to when they exploded, and look very smart for doing so. Calgary has generally done the opposite. They could not afford (fpr cap reasons) to sign Tkachuk to an 8-year deal after his ELC was up, so they walked him to UFA basically and took what they could get. Johnny signing for 6 years was the same, they couldn't afford the additional cap to get him to 8. They then signed a bunch of players for what they did in the past.

So, teams that know they cannot contend should sell off their assets for picks/prospects which helps their rebuild and gives them a better shot of the lottery picks. Why try and simply "just miss" the playoffs? Keeping a few decent players to keep the team respectable is simply a losing strategy. Those teams will never be a contender.

Chicago, even before winning the lottery, was closer to being a contender than the Flames, simply because they were in the position similar to an expansion team. They only had one long term contract, tons of cap space and a very good prospect pool (from trading their assets. They have 6 of the first 56 picks in a very deep draft. Plus they have a destination to attract UFA's.

And while the GM's made tank moves, the team out on the ice was always battling to win games. They knocked both Calgary and Pittsburgh out of the playoffs at the end of the season, dropping them in the lottery from 1 to 3. And ended up getting the #1 pick for their efforts. Maybe they were actually more deserving of getting that #1 pick than Anaheim who seemingly lost every game down the stretch?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I just watched a video where Craig Button is still contending Markstrom is a Vezina calibre goaltender. This is an insider. If anyone is willing to take him on, please take him off our plate at the draft. The guy is done.

He was a Vezina candidate the season before... while last year he was bad, I don't think that is conclusive evidence that he's "done".

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I just watched a video where Craig Button is still contending Markstrom is a Vezina calibre goaltender. This is an insider. If anyone is willing to take him on, please take him off our plate at the draft. The guy is done.

He just had a Vezina caliber season in 2022. The guy is not done. He had an off year, but every player in Calgary did, except for a select few. His value is at an all time low if we are even shopping him. I don't believe we are, not yet at least. Vladar will likely be the one to go.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Back on topic, my top 16 thus far and subject to change pre-combine/any other information I look at.

Bedard
Fantilli
Michkov
Carlsson
Smith

To me, that is the consensus top 5. Michkov is the huge wildcard that I can see falling due to the Russian factor playing a big role in this one, plus the KHL contract causing some concern for some NHL clubs wanting him sooner than later. I don't think he slides past Washington. If he does, Vancouver probably will want him with Kuzmenko in the future.

6-16 can honestly go anywhere and depend on preference. 6-16 (in no order):

Cristall
Sale
Leonard
*Sandin Pelikka
Brindley
Heidt
Barlow
*Reinbacher
Dvorsky
Yager
Perreault

And that is without mentioning Danielson, Moore, Perron, Ritchie, etc.

Moral of the story, grab another 1st please. Or at least another 2nd rounder in the 2nd half. There are so many top end prospects to choose from in this draft.

*Defenseman

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

There are generally good players available within 5 picks of 16.

2012:
16-Wilson
17-Hertl
18-Teravainen
19-Vasilevskiy
20-Laughton

2014:
16-Milano
17-Sanheim
18-Tuch
19-DeAngelo
20-Schmaltz

2015:
16-Barzal
17-Connor
18-Chabot
19-E Svechnikov
20- Joel Eriksson Ek

2016:
16-Chychrun
17-Fabbro
18-Stanley
19-Bellows

2017
16-Valimaki
17-Liljegren
18-Vaakanainen
19-Norris
20-Thomas

2019
16-Newhook
17-Krebs
18-Harley
19-Thomson
20-Heinola

2020
16-Guhle
17-Reichel
18-Mercer
19-Schneider
20-Mukhamadullin

Good players will be there. Flames just have to pick the right guy

Good players may be there, but you are looking at 2-3 years before they are good, contributing NHL players in most cases. Does this really help? If it were me, I would be still seriously considering moving players like Toffoli, Lindholm, Tanev in the hopes you can gather further draft capital or prospects closer to being ready to contribute.

This also opens the doors for some of the better prospects to take a more legitimate role on the team next year. Win Win in my opinion.

[cral12]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What are people's thoughts on Otto Stenberg? I have seen him ranked as high as 17 and as low as 64. Sounds like the guy could be a sleeper to take in the second round.

And #21 here ; )

https://bit.ly/upsidenhldraftprofiles

(It's Sandman's profile of course, with #21 being how my friend and Head of Scouting E-Mac has him ranked)

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Good players may be there, but you are looking at 2-3 years before they are good, contributing NHL players in most cases. Does this really help? If it were me, I would be still seriously considering moving players like Toffoli, Lindholm, Tanev in the hopes you can gather further draft capital or prospects closer to being ready to contribute.

This also opens the doors for some of the better prospects to take a more legitimate role on the team next year. Win Win in my opinion.

I’d like this too. There is lots of gold in round one this year.

The guys whose ages fit a 2 year rebuild we should keep (Hanafin assuming he will extend, Dube, Mang… guys in that age bracket).

Everyone else that wont sign friendly extensions should go before or at the draft. Anyone with high value on the wrong side of 30 should be shopped. That would leave us with a young team and no cap issues for 5-6 years.

I really hope the Flames load up on picks and prospects. Give us a fresh team and get rid of the rot.

[Jiri Hrdina]

In his post lottery draft Scott Wheeler has the Flames take Tom Willander at 16.
Dman who had a really good U18s.
I was listening to an Atheltic podcast and they compared him to Jake Sanderson.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In his post lottery draft Scott Wheeler has the Flames take Tom Willander at 16.
Dman who had a really good U18s.
I was listening to an Atheltic podcast and they compared him to Jake Sanderson.

Think he also really thinks the Flames are going to lean for a d-man over best player available.

Which I don't really see, under Button they have always tended to draft BPA in round one and not necessarily for positional need.

I do think we could see them being d-men heavy in the later rounds this year though.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I’d like this too. There is lots of gold in round one this year.

The guys whose ages fit a 2 year rebuild we should keep (Hanafin assuming he will extend, Dube, Mang… guys in that age bracket).

Everyone else that wont sign friendly extensions should go before or at the draft. Anyone with high value on the wrong side of 30 should be shopped. That would leave us with a young team and no cap issues for 5-6 years.

I really hope the Flames load up on picks and prospects. Give us a fresh team and get rid of the rot.

Mang has 2 years left

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Think he also really thinks the Flames are going to lean for a d-man over best player available.

Which I don't really see, under Button they have always tended to draft BPA in round one and not necessarily for positional need.

I do think we could see them being d-men heavy in the later rounds this year though.

At that spot it's possible that BPA could be a D. I think Reinbacher, Pelllilkka and Willander are all legit choices in that area.
Most drafts all 3 would go top 10 or even higher.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In his post lottery draft Scott Wheeler has the Flames take Tom Willander at 16.
Dman who had a really good U18s.
I was listening to an Atheltic podcast and they compared him to Jake Sanderson.

Total nightmare scenario. No doubt we will do it.

This is Tim Erixon.

[devo22]

just take the Austrian.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by VilleN

He was a Vezina candidate the season before... while last year he was bad, I don't think that is conclusive evidence that he's "done".

Oh he is done! The Oil wrecked him and he'll never be the same.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Total nightmare scenario. No doubt we will do it.

This is Tim Erixon.

You've watched him?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You've watched him?

I'd up that ...

Have you watched him a lot?

Because to throw around nightmare and Tim Erixon on a handful of viewings would be extreme.